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I got this Old Style ribbon bar from the Evil Twin 1 Year, 9 Months, and 7 Days ago...

and what I "saw" was, to make the Bizarre Reality "rational," a non-standard ribbon for the Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross on the non-combatant "red- blue" ribbon. Because it couldn't POSSIBLY be the only think it SEEMS to match-- the long service awards of Oldenburg's Gendarmerie. Not from this combination, in this precedence:

[attachmentid=31139]

But my eyes REFUSED to believe that it could be what it HAS to be, because THAT makes no sense either...

you see, I forgot Rule Number 612 of Ribbon Bar Identifications:

"See What Is NOT There." :unsure::speechless1::rolleyes::ninja:

AND Rule Number 904 aka Krause's Law:

"Sometimes They Put Things Away To Be Saved In Their Cufflinks Case Looooooong Before 1914 And Subsequent Upgrades."

Soooooo: anybody want to try for what these ribbons REALLY are? But remember :shame: Imperial Officers Did Not Make "Weimar" Anything Goes Bars. What is in order must BE... in order!!!

#1 = ?

#2 = ?

#3 = ?

#4 = 1897 Kaiser Wilhelm I Centenary Medal

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Lost devices? A crown on the RAO ribbon? Or even a bow?

So maybe a long serving Gendarmerie officer with home state awards moved up to the neck?

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"...officer with home state awards moved up to the neck?"

THAT part is correct. These are the left behinds. :beer:

NOT an Oldenburger at all.

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A disgruntled Hanovarian perchance?

:P

No- My guess is a Wurttembergian officer who entered service @1875+.

Edited by Ulsterman

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No- add 10 years to that date - IR 121 ???

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Ding ding ding ding!!!! :jumping::beer:

I just could not believe that the DARK BLUE stripes were for the W?rttemberg Long Service awards when what we usually see are SKY BLUE. And yet, see--

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=6...indpost&p=63053

note the identical dark blue on red in the ribbon bar upper right-- SEEING that in the group is what turned on my mental lightbulb for the Eureka Moment of Epiphany...

and indeed, the blue stripe is 3mm, 2mm from the edge = regulation proportions NOT of the Oldenburg, but of the W?rttemberg.

But wait! What W?rttemberger puts his native Friedrichs Order AFTER a Prussian Red Eagle?

Answer: nobody. It's NOT a Friedrichs Order-- it's a Prussian Crown Order...

But wait!!!

What W?rttemberg officer with 25 years service in has two Prussian Orders but "no" W?rttemberg Orders?

Answer: one whose native awards have "moved up."

The answer was staring at me the whole almost 2 years and my MIND refused to consider it! :speechless:

Albert von Berrer

born as ?Berrer? 8 September 1857 in Unterlochen, OA Aalen. Ennobled as von Berrer between 1902-1905.

W?rttemberg army 1874-1917?

Fahnenjunker 14.9.74

Sekondelieutenant 7.2.76

Premierlieutenant 14.6.86

Hauptmann 22.3.91

Major 22.3.97 Ee

Oberstleutnant 11.9.03 R

Oberst 21.5.06 M

Generalmajor 17.5.10 C

Generalleutnant 18.2.13 D

1902:Major iG, XVI. Armeekorps (WK3, WF3a, PrRAO4 (later no bow as non Prussian?), W XXV, SA3)

1905: Chief of Staff, VIII. Armeekorps (WK2c, otherwise as above)

1907: Commander, Wtbg Infantry Regiment 180 (WK2c, WF3a, W XXV, PrRAO3, PrKO3, SA3)

[attachmentid=31219]

1909: same, WF3a moved off medal bar to neck as WF2b. ***

[attachmentid=31220]

1912: Commander, 52nd Infantry Brigade, PrKO3 moved off medal bar to neck as PrKO2 ***

[attachmentid=31221]

1913: Commander, 31st Infantry Division (18.2.13 to 27.8.16)

1914: WF2a

WW1: Commanded Prussian 31st Infantry Division, renamed Generalkommando zbV 51 27.8.16. Known awards:

BMVO2mStX 18.9.14

PrRAO2X gazetted 20.3.15

star to above gazetted 18.12.15

Pour le Merite 27.8.17 for capture of Riga

Killed in action ?at the head of his advancing troops? in the village of San Gottardo, on the Undine River. I have noted a remark that he was actually murdered in his staff car by a passing Italian prisoner of war. (?)

Left widow Else n?e Meebold and son Lt (dR?) and stud. jur. Manhart von Berrer of Heidenheim a/Brenz, and brothers General Theodor and Oberst Hermann.

Old Style ribbon bar of Prussian Red Eagle Order 3rd Class, Prussian Crown Order 3rd Class, W?rttemberg XXV Years Long Service Cross, and Kaiser Wilhelm I 1897 Centenary Medal (confirmed in 1908/09 Orders Almanac entry) would have been worn circa 1909 as Colonel commanding Inf Rgt 180:

if anybody has the Prussian/W?rttemberg Rank Lists for 1908, 1909, 1910, and 1911 the awards changes from one edition to the next will narrow down precisely to what period von Berrer and ONLY von Berrer could have worn this bar.

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Oh . . . pretty.

IPB Image

I love watching the pieces of research falling into place and making this little scrap of cloth and metal come alive after so long.

:beer:

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It's one less of the Niggling In The Middle Of The Night pile! Crank up "Amazing Grace!" :cheeky:

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May we suppose then that this time is over today?

Hey! :Cat-Scratch:

Just because I haven't added an identifiable on its own ribbon bar to MY collection since...

April 16, 2004

"It doesn't affect my job performance." :P:rolleyes:

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Rick Research said:

:cheeky: One Year, Eleven Months to the day!!! :beer:

:beer:

Ecce Berrer:

berrer.jpg

Edited by webr55

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Thanks! That's not a bad photo of him-- though he was certainly not an imposing martial figure, was he?

The one in my edition of von Moser's "Die W?rttemberger im Weltkrieg" is so badly retouched as to be cartoonish.

I haven't been able to find WHERE I found the information that I pencilled next to his nam in a xerox years ago, but as I recall,

a passing Italian prisoner of war pulled out a grenade, tossed it into von Berrer's car--- and kablooie. ?

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The story I found on the net goes like this:

"What effectively happened was that Berrer's car drove well beyond his troops and right into the enemy. His corpse was found in a small village, and the Germans and Austrians were at a loss as to how this commander met his end--or more importantly, how it came to be that he outraced his own troops and ended up in hostile territory. General Enrico Caviglia, then commander of the Italian XXIV. Corps, gave the official story of Berrer's death as reported to newspapers around the world: Berrer's car lost touch with troops, he accidently drove into a village occupied by a squadron of Bersagliari cyclist troops, and they immediately shot him. Thus, von Berrer's career ended on 28 October 1917 at St Gottardo, Italy."

Might have been a grenade, after all.

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Daniel looked in his Rank Lists and found:

1908

WK2c, WF3a, WDA1, RAO3, KO3, SA3

1910

WK2c, WF2b, WDA1, RAO3, KO2, SA3

so, as my 1909 W?rttemberg HuSK shows the medal bar then, it falls neatly BETWEEN the May 1908 and May 1910 dates, BY 1909

and very possibly only for a very few MONTHS of wear in 1909...

and yet here it is, 97 years later-- at my house!!!

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Nice job, Richard! I can't tell you how many times and in how many different areas of my life I have overlooked the obvious. However, in your case, since you bought the bar from your evil twin I suspect the bar was impregnated with some sort of mind numbing evil vapor which has now dissapated allowing you to clearly see what you had missed before. ;)

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Rick,

Albert von Berrer, born as ?Berrer? 8 September 1857 in Unterlochen, OA Aalen. Ennobled as von Berrer between 1902-1905.

Albert Berrer was "personally" enobled consequent to his award of the WK2c on 25.2.1905. Here he is as a pre war brigade commander.

Regards

Glenn

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I think 'obsessive" is the understatement of the year...... determined would probably be more accurate.... also "blinded by the light" comes to mind....

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Hmmm...

"The Inspector Javert of Ribbon Bars?" :rolleyes::ninja:

Thanks for the larger portrait, Glenn....

no wonder my ribbon bar is so nice and clean-- he apparently never WORE 'em! :banger::banger:

:cheeky: Rick

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Look what I got from evilbay. Anybody want this? :rolleyes::ninja:

 

File4683a.jpg

Edited by webr55

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