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    drclaw

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    Everything posted by drclaw

    1. Ah, I was wondering who picked this one up. Congratulations on your acquisition. If the Tammann catalogue is correct these are incredibly rare. What is the quality of the enamels like. Is it quite a hefty badge? I'm guessing its gilded.
    2. Thanks for posting this very interesting photograph. The Fourth and Fifth Class Double Dragons were very rarely awarded, especially the Fifth Class so seeing a photograph of an actual recipient is a real pleasure. Do you know the name and background of this chap?
    3. As JC says, the Golden Grain medals were not numbered on the reverse so it is impossible to determine the recipient of a particular specimen without any other documentation. Tracing it would also be next to impossible unless you can establish a clear provenance trail. The honour would not have been presented without the medal. It's interesting that you mention Sun Yatsen as awarding the Golden Grain. Sun was the first Provisional President of the Republic but resigned as part of the deal to end the Chinese Civil War and establish the Republic. The Golden Grain was inaugurated in 1912 by President Yuan Shikai and awarded by him and his successors in the Beiyang Government in Beijing until the Guomindang defeated the warlords in 1928. Some references suggest that Sun Yatsen and the Nationalists in Guangdong Province awarded the same honours as the "national" government in Beijing but I've not been able to verify this. It won't help you track down the medal but it's worth doing an online search of The London Gazette of your grandmother's name. If she applied to the British Foreign Ministry for approval to wear the insignia, it would be listed. The medal you posted is the Imperial Household Medal awarded during the Qing Dynasty. It quite often appears on the market but I'm not sure why and to whom it was awarded.
    4. Not something I've seen before Dragomir. The photograph is however of a senior officer in the late Qing military uniform, circa. 1907-1912. You can tell by the 'rank button' on his hat and the ornate belt which is inscribed with a dragon. I don't recognise the face unfortunately but others might know.
    5. Thanks JC and Nick for posting your comments. I find the Wang Jingwei awards a fascinating field. JC points out is a Wang Jingwei Reorganised Government Naval Medal. The Reorganised National Government of China was established by the Japanese with its capital in Nanjing, 1940-45. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reorganized_National_Government_of_the_Republic_of_China
    6. Yes, I can see why that China Poly Auctions demands such a big deposit for bidding. It seems some folks still haven't caught onto the fact that bidding at an auction carries with it an obligation to pay. I wonder if auction houses might now be requiring deposits from certain client demographics given past experience.
    7. Thanks for posting this KimKan. Some real beauties in that auction including a Brazil Order of the Rose set (very rare to come across complete sets) and an Ottoman Order of Glory.
    8. Very nice! Thanks for sharing Jcwater. I especially like the lapel rosette that is actually a pin.
    9. Very interesting Besu, thanks for posting these. I am guessing these are exquisitely rare.
    10. Interestingly, the First Type First Class badge was sold by the same auction house in November 2012. http://coins-la-galerie-numismatique.com/auction-xxii/china/order-double-dragon
    11. The third image in Nick's post #49 was sold in the 2008 Tammann Collection auction. Interestingly, that example was a SCREWBACK with the "84" zolotniki mark and no maker's mark. Here's the auction description: "Order of the Double Dragon, 1st type (1882-1902), 3rd class, 1st grade breast star (ca. 1896-1902), siam. 80 mm, silver, centre silver gilt and enamelled, min. nearly invisible enamel chip pings, with blue paste stone in the centre, on the reverse St Petersburg silver mark "84" zolotniki from 1865 until 1899, with screwback. In St Petersburg produced star corpus with applied Chinese manufactured centre. As the Russian hallmark's system changed in 1899 the time of the manufacturing of this breast star can be restricted to 1896 until 1899." Paul - every time I refer to the Tammann Catalogue I mentally send you a cider
    12. It's possible given how "unfashionable" the First Type awards were to the European taste that he might have commissioned a replacement Second Type sometime in the next 12 years. But yes, the photograph and history is on their face, evidence that a mix of First and Second Types were awarded in 1901. More documented awards will confirm this.
    13. Very interesting KIMKAN, thanks for posting this. If the insignia Fonssagrives is wearing is the same that was awarded, it suggests that the Second Type was awarded as early as 1901. Interestingly, other Third Class Boxer period Double Dragons were of the First Type so it would seem that a range of Types might have been awarded around this time.
    14. Would anyone know what is the likely cause of enamel rot? Is it an imperfect curing process? Or perhaps using a silver metal alloy with impurities?
    15. It's hard to tell from the images but I suspect it's enamel rot. There was a cased example that went unsold at an Italian auction a couple of years ago which was perfect except for the fact the red enamel looked like the surface of the moon. It seemed unusual at the time given the usual quality of Japanese manufactured insignia. But with this example, it's not a one-off.
    16. Interesting thread Nick! That was a Hermann Historica item if I recall correctly. Sold for quite a mint too.
    17. #44 is fascinating! The presentation case and ribbon is undoubtedly Chinese made, which would make me hazard that the medal too was Chinese made. The pristine condition raises a niggling doubt in my mind but it could well have been cleaned / polished for sale.
    18. FANTASTIC STUFF Nick! You've solved one enduring mystery regarding the Legation Medals - that the "London" Legation medals were in fact issued by both the London and St Petersburg Legations with two manufacturers: Heatons by Birmingham, and now Abraham Avenirovitch Griliches. I think this deserves a separate thread!
    19. There's been speculation as to whether the St Petersburg Legation also issued its own Legation medal as at the time, there were three Qing Legations - London, Berlin and St Petersburg. The London Legation Medal by Heatons of Birmingham was awarded by the London Legation, while the Berlin Legation Medal was issued in Berlin. Would you be able to expand your thoughts as to the Heatons Medal also being awarded by the St Petersburg Legation?
    20. Here's an extract from the 2008 UBS catalogue compiled by Gustav Tammann and Michael Autengruber: "The variety of these Type I insignia was greatly enhanced by the fact that the recipients of the three lower classes (and of the 2nd class?) could be proposed to the Court by Viceroys, Governors, Generals and other high officials who, however, had to pay for the insignia. This was used particularly by Li Hung-chang to introduce neck badges of reduced size and of non-standard design. When breast stars were introduced in 1894 the silver stars were frequently ordered in Europe (from, e.g., Halley, Kretly, Lemaitre, Wolfers, and Godet) and surmounted by a much reduced, Chinese made type I badge." Alas, this is the only reference to Li Hongzhang I have been able to locate. In the absence of a documented group or other primary sources, we are unable to verify this theory. That said, it's a theory advanced by Gustav Tammann and Michael Autengruber, who would be among the most knowledgeable experts in the field of phaleristics. On the inferior quality of the particular example, we need to remember that it was not a period a great standardisation when it came to Chinese awards so variations in quality or aesthetics could be expected. See for example the Type 1 breast stars commissioned by Prince Chun from Godet which feature the, to my own personal aesthetics, rather peculiar diamond cut rays. Both the Berlin and London Legations also commissioned Legation medals which were "official awards" for services where a Double Dragon might not have been appropriate. There is quite a difference in design quality of these medals. No, I DON'T own this particular piece. But I'm wary about describing it as a collectors copy. Perhaps if it didn't have the provenance of the 82 years of being in the collection of the ANS ...
    21. The catalogue description for the Morton & Eden specimen reads: "Order of the Double Dragon, Type 1, an uncertain Third Class (?) uniface neck badge, in silver-gilt and enamels, without setting for a central stone, 63 x 52mm, probably of unofficial European manufacture, extremely fine. Given by Harold E. Gillingham, 1925." So it was in the collection of the American Numismatic Society for 82 years before it was auctioned. It's certainly an odd piece but the provenance is quite well established.
    22. It's not just Chinese warlords with dead staring eyes ... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-Medal-Coin-People-Princess-Diana-very-nice-Coin-medal-/281399318022?pt=UK_Collectables_Memorabila_RL&hash=item4184b4d606 The theory on #5, which was sold by Morton & Eden from the American Numismatic Society Collection, was that it might have been commissioned in Europe by Li Hongzhang when he toured there. The design has very strong European appearance, particularly the Baroque style curling leaves framing the medal.
    23. It was remiss of me not to read the reverse inscription earlier. From what I can tell, it is a Shandong Province award dated the 17th Year 1st month of the Republic, i.e. January 1928. This could well make it a charity award from the Dogmeat General Zhang Zongchang! Others with better Mandarin might be able to confirm.
    24. Thanks for posting these Nick. The double dragon medal is certainly very attractive and one I've not encountered in any catalogue or reference book before. The medallion and design appears to be a perfect fit which suggests an original award.
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