Claudius

red

It is imaginable that men wearing these patches could be on leave at the same time. Walking down the Reeperbahn in Hamburg they could pass by each other on their respective left sides. If they could be distracted for a moment from the “scenery” to look at each other they would notice, that while they were organized under different departments within the same navy, they essentially did the same job. It is also likely that they were the Geschützführer for the same manufacturer type/caliber gun.

...backs...

Here is a photo of two Geschützführer patches –an embroidered flaming bomb with two chevrons. One in red thread and another in yellow thread. The patches would be worn on the left sleeve, below the technical badge. The summer white tunics would have a white patch with blue embroidery; however the dark blue “winter” or parade jackets would have the distinguishing insignia in either red or yellow thread. The reason of the different colored thread lies in the organization structure of the Imperial German Navy. In briefest outlines; the Kaiserliche Marine was divided into three parts; 1) Marinebehörden –General staff/Inspection/Cabinet 2) Marineteilen zur See –all the men aboard ships 3) Marinteilen am Lande; a. Matrosen Divisions b. Werft Divisions c. See-Bataillon, in both Ostsee Kiel and Nordsee Wilhelmshaven d. Torpedo Division e. Stamm- See-Bataillon f. Matrosen-Artillerieabteilung g. Minenabteilung h. Schiffsjungendivision on SS “König Wilhelm” i. Marine-Luftschifferabteilung j. Marine Fliegerabteilung Under the Marine am Lande partition, the Matrosen divisions used RED thread for their Trade insignia and the Matrosen-Artillerieabteilung divisions used YELLOW thread for their insignia. Historically, there were a greater number of Matrosen men than Matrosen-Artillerieabteilung men and therefore the RED thread insignia is more common.

Greetings; Is medal original or is it's construction consistant with known fakes? Thank you for looking.

Great photo! Thank you for sharing it here. Please add anything more you have about your family members.

Dave; That is some great analysis work! Thank you for an insight into your findings. I look forward to your Schwarzburg rolls being completed.

In this order??? I would guess the owner was a real die-hard Prussian to put a Schwarzburg House order m/S in front of a peace-time Crown order and Prussian long service. (I would assume it is the SEK and not the War Merit medal?) Next I would assume that he was an officer with pre-war service and therefore may be listed, but could be untraceable with so few awards to distinguish him apart.

maybe....maybe that photo alone could convince a wealthy collector to keep the whole set together. That photo is just outstanding when paired with the awards on the auction block. Forgive the romanticizing, but one could almost imagine von Zoellner -after attending his 60th Jubilee -never having the occasion to wear his awards again. The awards sat like in a time-capsule.

"If anyone can confirm this is the EKI and where we might look to find out details of when and how he received this award, any ideas, suggestions, etc. would be most welcome. What sort of documentation/paper trail would accompany an award like this? I also want to confirm he would have been awarded the EKII before being awarded the EKI. " Hello Daniel; Great link and story on an interesting player in the spy game during WWI. I enjoyed learning about his activities and what he was attempting to do. To address your initial question again....Yes, this is the EK1. There is no doubt. From what I can understand from the synopsis/chronology of Hans Boehm, he earned his EK1 for his spy related efforts. His military service was long finished before WWI. No doubt the Imp. German government found his service valuable (and dangerous) and rewarded him with it (perhaps after the war). The EK2 is implied with the awarding of the EK1. In the formal, civilian photo that shows him wearing the EK1 and the Spanish award (Order of Military Merit? -Breast Star) he doesn't bother with the lesser EK2 award. The best way to learn when he earned an award would be to have the award document for the said award. They are typically dated. As I mentioned earlier, it is my opinion, based on the chronology that I read, that he earned he EK1 (and EK2) after the war for his (spy) services on behalf of Germany. Likely the Spanish award was also awarded after the war for the same reasons.

That is a great photograph and message on the back! I think Chris' suggested history of the piece is defendable. Thank you for not only showing the photo, but the message on the back and its meaning.

The TR era guys understood manpower issues. Having decorated veterans, with another 20 years of seasoning to run responsible positions in storehouses and recruiting depots would free up younger men for frontline duty. I have a document to a guy from German East Africa in WWI, captured by the British in 1914 and exchanged back to Germany in 1917. My point is that during WWII, he was a quasi-officer rank at a recruitment station.

when you look at the different versions of Eagle designs that the RAO has had, as shown on A. Schulze Ising's website, the eagle on this cross is a joke.

Ahh....thank you. Need to take a few more sips of coffee this morning.

nice. I believe it signifies the WgM. Awarded for a specific act of gallantry. Sources vary, but a rare medal with some 4,000+ awarded.

Friedrichs: and the order to the swords above. They look like they are barely hanging on. Careful bending these back, you don't know how close the metal fatigue is to its limit. This bar will really look outstanding with the Sweden Sword order on the end. Great bar to a Prussian with some nice connections. Can you show us the back please? And perhaps a peek underneath if the felt is not tightly held down.

Point taken -more than 90 years old. Regardless, the gouges in this cross seem less reminiscent of time-ravaged wear and more like it was in a fight with a butter knife.

Nay. The arms convince me. If everyone else also agrees that this is a fake, this piece is a study on how the fakers are distressing the medals to make them look like they have 90 years of "light" abuse. Do you have this one in your hands or is an online photo from a dealer?

This one really hangs low. I'm somewhat surprised the medalbar maker didn't put the hook at nearer the top. I'm used to these not lining up with the rest of the awards -but this is a real stretch.

Diaspora... If I may offer a silver-lining to this very likely division of this wonderful group is that in this day and age, electronic photographs preserve what once was there. Records of sale from an auction purchase can also be used to trace a single piece back to its original owner even decades later (if the bill of sale are kept).

Seeheld -are you in Tsingtao again? Can you take some photos? Is anything recognizable from 100 years ago? BTW: do they even have a museum there regarding the days when it was a German outpost?

Hello pinpon590; It wasn't a serious offer to purchase it. Just expressing how much I like it. Now that I see the rest of your collection next to it -I wouldn't want to break up the Oldenburg theme! Please carry on the theme! I look forward to seeing your next acquisition.