Chris Boonzaier

Waffenbabrik Mauser A.G. Oberndorf Abnahme 1917

I dont know if I am going to go down the rocky road of bayonet collecting, but here are the makers I have at the moment... Deutschemachinenfabrik A.G. Duisberg - notice even the screws are stamped!! Abnahme 1916

Here is a card from a training course....

There were diverse things from the seller I think? I got some shoulder boards, a few boring letters, a description of a Stosstrupp Unternehmung etc...

Here are the pics for discussion...

You mean someone is telling lies??? :-)

I think i got a few other parts of this... it was all split up on ebay wasnt it?

Plenty of knocks on the door that could have ended up worse!! Had a "Sorry, ran over your cat" knock a few weeks ago... Luckily it was not mine....

Does anyone have a set off officers collar badges of the York and Lancaster regiment to show? Thanks Chris

Have stayed a couple times in the tiny village of Aprememont.... This little goodie is about as big as an EK.... "Apremont - Aus Schwerer Zeit" 1914-1915.... I guess it is REAL trenchart, or at least in the rear area, not some postwar stuff... anyone see which medal was used to style it on? Must have been a real labour of love....

These are the wifes Great Grandfathers goodies... At some stage I would like to get them mounted..... Here is the million dollar question... waht would be the best way to have them mounted... and does anyone know anyone who is good at it? (Other than the ebay faker brigade ;-))

Remember the days when you sent off a letter and the answer came 3 weeks later ? You older dudes need to kick back and have a cold one :-)

Hi, does anyone know where Lichtmesstrupp 120 was at the end of may 1918 ? Thanks+ Chris

Done ;-)

"tidy the gun room day" sounds like a pretty nice day indeed!!!!!

Hi, thanks, I have a bunch more since then, must get around to photographing it. Lets see some of your goodies :-)

I could really dislike a guy for owning that cap on the right :-((((( Nice buy ! ;-)

Hi Uwe, thanks :-) That fits.

Klaro, nach seiner Verwundung und laz. aufenthalt, zum Genesenden Batterie....

Maybe this is more complicated than at first glance.... It seems to break down into 4 "types", from one extreme to another 1) Type 1, British, The award is the fact that the award was approved, AND you get an official medal with your name (for the most part). I think the gazetting is not part of the Process. 2) Type 2, 1870, The award is the fact that it was approved, and a returnable medal was given. 3) Type 3 1914, the award is the fact that the award was made, and you have probably get a medal. (I have one group to a guy who got an "iron Cross" but did not get the cross itself, as the Division had run out. So he was an EK winner from 1918 onwards, but only got the Medal in 1934. 4) Type 4, French, The award is the fact that your award was approved, and you have to buy the corresponding medal

My point is, unlike in the British system, where the Medal itself is considered important enough that replacements actually be marked as such, in the german system the award seems to be simply a "FACT".... Your award is made almost like an "E-Award"..... and the medal itself is just a visable symbol, but you can buy as many as you want, on the document is simply a paper confirming that you have the award. I dont think the Besitzzeugnis makes the award official... the general signing off on the award makes it official.... the Document is just a confirmation that the General had Authorised/confirmed it.... of course, for the soldier the medal itself was "the award"... but in fact it is simply a replacable symbol. If we jump back a generation though... in 1870, when an iron Cross was to returned to the state, my argument falls through... there you have the approval, and an object that is officially the award....

I disagree... The British get one medal, period. And once they have it in their hand, its theirs... it IS their award. Although not all are named, the fact that (if I remember correctly) if you apply for a replacement, it is stamped as such, seems to indicate that the replacement is NOT your award... you lost the real one..

Sorry, confusing my vegatables... she has 2 ripe tomatoes, he has 2 wrinkled nuts.....

Indeed... but not every tomato is a tomato... I would prefer Gingers tomatoes to Freds.... "award document" is maybe the easiest, as it documents the fact that an award was in fact made... I have also often heard the argument that unlike with British medals, in germany the document "was the award"... which is false. I admit to having used that before as well, the document is the most important thing (that I agree with ;-) ) , but the award was just a "thing" that you could buy at a tailor (unlike with British awards)... but the argument that the document was in fact the award hold no water when initially so many awards were made without documents....

Over the years I have heard (and used) all possible variations Patents, Award documents, award certificates, Formal award document, preliminary award documents, Ausweis, .... but basically, it is always the same thing, a piece of paper confirming the Soldier recieved the Iron Cross. Maybe in 1870 there were patent for officer, and Besitzeugnis for ORs... but in 14-18 there was no difference. The decree by the Kaiser in 1918 that any document issued by an authority confirming the award should be seen as the final Besitzzeugnis (realising that unlike 1870 there was not going to be anyone issuing nice documents) basically gives the same status to an elabrorately printed document from the Alpenkorps and to a Soldbuch sized hand written page confirming the award. According to the Kaiser, both of these should be considered the besitzzeugnis... I have been looking for a phrase that "does it" for me... I have heard all the arguments over the years "THAT is not a certificate, that is a document"... "That is a preliminary award document, its worth less than a formal one...".... enough! Over the years we have been trying to cram round English pegs into square german holes when it comes to finding English equivalents for German names. I am tending towards using "Proof of Entitlement" for Besitzzeugnis... (and dropping everything else, other than the informal catchall of "doc" or "award doc") My reasoning is... the Besitzzeugnis is a written proof that the soldier is entitled to have/wear the iron cross... and the kaiser gave all documents this status in his decree.... ergo... all documents issued are a Besitzzeugnis. What do you guys think?