Marcus H

You've only yourself to blame Jacques Then Sal and Frank have got me hooked too. I've been looking for the citations (any medal for the LC) no luck there yet. I know a guy who has a nice case, I can't afford it, he's not selling it at the moment but I'll let you know when he does......I'm more after the awards than the cases at the moment (money difference and all)

Reverse

Established in January 1937 and renewed in 1942 to form the War Cross badge and it's three classes of breast star according to rank. Further it is divided into two divisons with or without palms. The palms were for oustanding action to warrant promotion or advancement on the military list. Without palms for gallantry in combat. This is mine and has a nice little addtion of a 'safty catch' adjacent to the catch. .

Jacques, I've seen several bronze examples like this set up on the back, the hinge which looks like it's placed incorrectly, almost on it's side the block area facing towards the catch (just my diction in recognition of this type). And the catch being a thick catch. And this pin, the tapered end on the hinge as such. Are the bronze examples more common with this set up ? I've seen a nice silver 900 in a box, I was considering trading up against with a Naval Honour Roll too, still thinking on that one. I'm liking these more and more !!! Kr Marcus

The obverse Bob is just the monarchs crown within the laurel wreath, the REVERSE has the crowned royal cypher with the laurel wreath. My favourite British award, a very pretty looking medal. Kr Marcus

It's in English as well Rick, more concerning for me is the Russian awards are dangerous with my little or no knowledge of Russian awards, some of the German ones you could spot a mile off (like the 100 PAB, not even close and not the best fake of that badge) What pee's me off is that even fake the simple basic common awards. Old news but it never fails to rile me.

This link may be useful to some in identification of the numerous fakes out there At least you can pop some of these pictures in your fake files. http://capral.webzone.ru/indexen.htm Kr Marcus

Ricky and Gerd may know this site already, I came across on the WAF and thought of you guys. As a collector of Russian awards too, I know over the years Russian medals have been faked to a great degree so this may of some interest or help. http://capral.webzone.ru/indexen.htm Kr Marcus

This I'm afraid is the size they came, and when I enlarge them I distort them...I'd like to see these boxes, they're no threat but never the less.

They look different to me just, I though I was semi conversant with the black WB's but in reality these little so and so's are being faked to such a degree even they are a cause for concern and deliberation now. Here are some more pic's from that site.

rev

The packet is for sure a fake. Here's that fake I posted on the WAF. If it hadn't have stated it was fake, there's just no way earth I would have known different It was on a site that sold reproduction items. Kr Marcus

David thats a lovely packet !!!! Kr Marcus

Hi Bill, I'm of the thought it's the '27' the Anton Schenkl's of Nachfolger Wien. I'll tell why I think so: not only is there a thought on this in Gordons book, The Iron Cross of 1939 on page 74, but further to that over on the WAF there was some deliberation over the identical small tan packets devoid of a flap found always with 27's in them which I started with another guy on there, these EK's found in these packets are all 27's. Since then I've been looking into these a bit. Every once in a blue moon, you find the packets (Specific packet I show below) still intact....... but, the reason for the packets perhaps devoid of the flap is on some of these tan packets is that (exactly like the one below, devoid of flap) some have the Anton Schenkl's maker mark and then others with Maria Schenkl's, could it all be possible (Seems odd though) that the Anton packets were purposely ''modified'' by the removal of the Anton marked flap when Maria succeeded/took over the business, as we also find the exact same packet with the Maria stamp !!??? Not only that, every packet studied so far (Tan one below in pic), the flap has been removed by 'cutting'; every packet seems to have had the flap cut off carefully (and there is still just enough remains visible to vouch that they did indeed have a flap, CUT not torn or ripped) Note I should say NOT every one of these specific packets has had the flap cut off, thats how we cottoned onto the Anton & Maria thoughts, most of them and the sparse odd one not. Could this contribute to the relationship of Anton and Maria and the PL number '27' ? And hence that the packet like yours Bill and the EK........could all Maira's be 27's perhaps with the correlation of the above ? I think there is something in it perhaps, it's a shot in the dark but a theory at least. This is the packet (left) found with the flap cut off, with Anton and Maria markings and always a 27 in them. The one on the right is a Maria marked packet thats intact.......and not really any use in the debate as this one came with no medal. Kr Marcus

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A while ago I think Jacques mentioned some naval boxes with the desigantion on them. I think as far as hard case's go there are no known genuine examples with any designation on the case lid in regards to the naval awards. These fakes may be of interest to you and ones to avoid should you see them for sale. Kr Marcus

Wiht the exception of a few theories this is all I have come up with really on this quest. Any idea's ? Here's a shot to show the difference in inks perhaps to mm and warrenty, could this be a post application ?

In addition to the cellophane packet, we do have a SMALLER version of the Ldo packet with not the exact same warrenty but the letter spacing.

A better example of the cellophane packet Ldo warrenty

An overlay, I think this dispells at least perhaps the notion it's a modern computor generated warranty, at this stage perhaps. This is a heavy inked cellophane packet and not the best example perhaps to use, the others were to feint really to see. The packet isn't dead flat under the scanner and the packet kept moving, but aleast you can see the proportions of the letters and size. When held on the packet by hand, it's a perfect match.

.......it does coincide witht eh Ldo warrenty on the cellophane genuine packets (Not to be confused with wax packets, or indeed the tan paper packets Ldo warrenty)

The Ldo warranty. There's been some deliberation and idea's on this, it's been mentioned as an addition to the packet perhaps, the packet is fake as a whole, and that on the addition side of things, this is a modern computor printing process with the spacing of the letters within the Ldo warranty. True, it's not the same as on the Ldo paper small packets. But.......*

There is out of interest a smaller designation along the very close lines of this 'larger' one I mentioned above. Observing many packets, I noted this designation which to the eye looks the same, but on closer inspection there exist examples of desigantion of this type that are smaller, and deviate slightly. Recognition of the smaller v larger designation is as follows: A dip in the stem of the larger desig. '1' of the date (Where the smaller desig. dosen't) and the last '9' is always less defined in a rounded sense (Where as in the smaller desig. it is defined) There are others, should you really be that concerned I'll let you look for them, I ask myself half the time is this really bloody worth it ? Larger design is on the bottom