ekhunter

You make an excellent point here. "Where is the line drawn"? I guess the answer is up to each individual collector. I just bought a Deumer 1914 1st class made during the Third Reich and didn't think twice about purchasing it, or the fact that it was made 10 to 20 years after the war ended, however, I would never knowingly buy a Third Reich 1st class made during the 50's or 60's. Kind of a strange way of thinking, if you really think about it! Now you really got my brain fried too early in the morning. Thanks a lot! Seriously, I guess it's just an individual thing!

Typical KO. Nice Cross!

Agreed, a true beauty!

True, Orth was known to use Souval frames, but note the dipping '3'.

I too was part of that discussion, and I still contend that it is a unmarked Godet. Nevertheless, it is one that I would love to have in my collection.

Nice Cross. Definately a good move on your part.

And what a nice double marked Zimmermann Bill has! Nice catch on the L/11, totally missed that one! That makes me feel like saying what the heck, and buy um both! I say go for it he you can. I can spend other people's money so easily.

O.K. that is the flat catch variety of the Deumer, and is a good one. However, from the photo it appears that it has a little wear to it, and the 11 appears worn off some, so I would say it is a little salty itself. I wouldn't say from appearance sake that the Deumer was in that much better shape overall than the Zimmermann. I doubt you are going to get a Cross cheap enough from a dealer to turn around and sell it for a nice profit. Maybe! You can PM with the price if you want, and I'll tell you if it's in the ballpark or low or high, whatever. Dealers are generally in the ballpark. So if you are going to keep just one, I personally would go for the double marked Zimmermann, but then again that would greatly depend on how much more he wanted for it. Sounds confusing I know, but hopefully this helped some. R

Rob, I would definately like to see a picture of the reverse of the Deumer before commenting. Even honest dealers make mistakes, so being called an original by a dealer doesn't necessarily mean so sometimes. The Zimmermann looks good, and a double marked Zimmermann is not that common, but you do see them occasionally. They do get a little more for the double marked pieces. As far as what piece or pieces to purchase, it's really just a personal preference thing. Some like minty, and some like salty, I personally like somewhere between the two. Russel

Not sure what you are asking. The one on the right is a C.F. Zimmermann, and the one on the left appears to be a Deumer, would like photos of the reverse before rendering opinion though. Are you thinking of buying or selling one of these? Russel

Thanks for the up close shots of the pin and hinge assembly. That's some really detailed photos. I think that eliminates the pin replacement theory, so now, deductively, we have a very rare pin variant that everyone that collects Meybauer's or Iron Crosses in general will be looking for. Damn you for adding one more to my list. Great cross, if you ever get tired of it, you can PM me. Russel

Seeing all of these reminded me that I have a 1939 Meybauer, had forgot all about it. Micha has some really nice ones. I have to agree with him on the pin on J Temple Wests' 1914, it is either a replacement, or a ultra rare variant that I've never seen before.

Isn't this an early one?

[attachmentid=50779][attachmentid=50780]Larger, but fuzzy pictures of the same.

[attachmentid=50778]Bill, I remember you once posted a 1st class where the upper arm was sloped to one side. I commented on it, and never got around to posting mine like it. I don't know if this was a faulty die, or happened in the process of vaulting the cross, either way, this cross has significant sloping to the top. Unusual.

[attachmentid=50770][attachmentid=50771]This is my unmarked AWS. The screw appears to be a little different than y'alls in material.

[attachmentid=50767][attachmentid=50768]I've got one just like Daniels' These really are unigue crosses. Bill, this is the one that I told you about that a family friend took off of a German soldier in N. Africa. I've got the cross displayed in a case with the family friend's dog tags. Makes it even more unigue to me.

Yes, I do have a complete one and will try to post pictures later.

I guess I 'm lucky, because I also have a standing hinge type pin variation. This one is only the third one I've seen like this. I posted a picture of mine on MCF a few months back. I have to say once again, Micha has hit 'gold' with these.

I love these particular crosses. They are truly great works of art. Unusual that both of these two AWS' are missing their backing plates. That Micha does have a knack for finding rare crosses. Good job!

Sorry, but I had to know if you were the one. Now, no more sleep on Thursday nights, thanks. Seriously though, I thought it was the same one, great buy, both crosses I would love to have in my collection. Congrats!!! Russel

Not to reiterate Micha's question, but is the second cross the one from DN's site? I saw he had one listed a few weeks ago that had sold. Never seen one like it before. Really unique! The unmarked Godet is particularly nice itself, and flat too. Two excellent crosses!

Yes it did, but they(L/12) are getting harder and harder to find. It did sell awfully quick too. I like yours a lot, don't have one like it yet, can't have them all, but I'll keep trying. R

Did you buy this from D.? He just sold one two weeks ago.

Tis the so-called "Latvian" made cross. Probably made in eastern Europe somewhere. Made in the last few years.