Graf

Dear UWE, I can not understad you . It is very contadictory In several contemporary catalogues you can find the word Original, e.g. St&L in 1939. But it is not meant as an original piece. It is only the word Original for the differentiation between the original size and the size for a miniature (Miniatur). You made such a big question about my "ORIGINAL" At the same time you are defending the word "ORIGINAL" in S&l 1939 Catalogue Again, no bad feeling just a friendly remark No harm done We are members of Gentemen's Club Cheer up Kind regards Graf

Dear Members, I noticed that the topic created a very hot dispute. Dear Uwe,I am afraid however you took the question very strictly. I appologize for any hard tension created. This Club is called Gentelmen's for a reason and we have to try to keep it, by all means, that way. My question was, regardless whether the EK is considered as original or a copy by different memebers, whether this EK has all the featurs of 1914 EK1 produced by Eduard Carl Juncker during WW2 period.i.e. whether it is contemporary piece or recent production. As we know the market is floaded with recently made WW2 EK2 because of the incresed interest and prices. I will not be surprised that more and more top of the range WW1 EKs will appear on the market. I agree with the members that We need a new tread for the Question What is FAKE and what is ORIGINAL. I will be not surprised if it turns to be very interesting and extremly hot topic with creative criticism not distructive one. My Question to UWE is why on the Market are so many Original KC of EK Much more many than were awarded .All are considered as Original. or claimed as such If you look strictly into this Question the answer is <IT IS ORIGINAL DECORATION ONLY IF OBTAINED DIRECTLY FROM THE RECIPIENT OR HIS FAMILY WITH ALL SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION WITH A VERY STRON PROVENANCE> Otherwise it is just a piece of metal made somewhere at certain time. Kind Regards Graf

Hi Uwe, It is a good pont Thank you. Yes, the reward period from 1914 to 1924 is corect. In this particular case "Original" means made by the Maker whose mark is on the EK, not a forgery or fake made in Estonia, China or Pakistan. It could be said that it is 1914 "genuine reproduction" by Juncker for the WW1 Veterans serving in the Wehrmacht and all other recipients or for display purposes by their families request if the first ones had perished. This particular one is in the same Group as the other EKs made by WW2 makers like Descler und Sohn and Wilhelm Deumer that are considered as "Original" Graf

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This is the reverse view Graf

Dear Members, I would like to share this 1914 EK1 marked L/12 for Juncker Because the EK is marked with L/12 I assume it was mace after 1942 when LDo was introduced I purhesed it from a reputable German Militaria Dealer from Europe as Original and I treat iit as such one. Recently I showed it to another Dealer in North America, who nearly acussed me that is a Repro. I have posted picture of it on another Forum, however I will post more detailed ones now. Please, for your opinion and any info regarding its manifacturing. Regards Graf

New World, Very Nice Congrats! This is the Document As you see it is in German It is 210 mm x150 mm I have not seen any Bulgarian Documents for Order of Bravery from this Period. Regards Graf

Hi, Thank you for the comment I should have said "not very stong provenance". I did not buy it directly from the family Back to the topic Picture of King/Tzar Boris III with the 3-rd Class of 1941 It appears he was not a show off guy as his father Very humble one. Regards Graf

Hi, It is realy very interesting piece I have few unusual French made Orders (not only Belgium Order of Leopold) I believe that they could be privately made for French recepients I have two Leopold French made Orders, however they are from later periods. One is made by Lamaitre -an Officer Class, the crown is similar as yours The othe is made by A. Bertrand -Commander Class However, yours is much more unusual type. Regards Graf

Hi, It is in mine collection The fact is is that they have never been awarded to Bulgarian soldiers ..only to German Officers and soldiers who were involved in combat in the Balkans. I think that from the Number and the Name of the Military Unit one can check in the arhives abouth authencity of the Document i.e whether ths data on the Document is made up or it is a real presentation of the Military Unit involved in combat on the Balkans I will post full picture of the Document tomorrow Graf

I wonder how many pieces have been minted I have seen more than 12 over the years on the collectors market No question that it is one of the rarest Post WW2 award The marked 14 Karat(583) forGold seems to be the rarest. I have heard that are single pieces 22 Karat Gold I have one unmarked ( Ihave never tested it I do not like to damage the surface) I nearly purhesed marked 583 one couple of years ago A dealer in Germany had two for sale at the same time?! Graf

closer view of the Soldier's Cross Graf

This is another rare "bird'" from this period -The 4-th Class of the Soldier's Cross It comes with a ribbon with swords and a Document. Again -No provenance, however nice Set Graf

Dear members, I would like to start this topic with a nice 1941 3-rd Class Order for Bravery In fact since no 1-st and 2-nd Classes were given during this period this Class is considered to be the "1st Class" I have seen pictures of this Order, from this period, mostly with Bulgarian Officers and more often with King Boris III. I aquired this 3-rd Class recently with a picture of German General. I do not know whether this is his Order, because there is no provenance to suppoti it. However, it is a nice Set anyway. It ia a real photo with a hand written "Stalingrad". Regards Graf

Hi, This is a closer view of the Police S, Boards Graf

Hi Guys, Here is a picture of my Collection of Bulgarian Shoulder Boards You can see the police ones with the insignia BDP The letters are interlocked. I do not have on my keyboard the Kirilic Alphabet Regards Graf

Hi Chris, I just noticed your comment. Thank you I am happy that i shared this EK1 with the other memebers from the club This will prevent them from buying similar forgeries Moral of the story is if not sure consult with people more experienced in the field I am glad that I joined the Club few months ago, I will advice any collector to do so. If you collect and not sharing with others, you are quite prone to make, sometimes costly, mistakes. Regards Graf

Hi Ben, That fact that The EK was unmarked and the core is Original was that lured me into buying it The pin looked a little bit different from the books, however i did not pay too much attention on this detail Also the very new look of the whole EK, a fact which nowdays triggers a question abouth the originality. I believed that, at that time, if the dealer was registered evrything was OK Now, when you say that it might be a core from a "butchered' EK2 with a round 3 I realise how easy could be to trick unexperienced novice in the field. Your opinion was shared with another member on different forum, which i started few days ago, regarding the EK1 with round 3 and EK1 Schinkel Type Regards Graf

Hi Ben, Thank you for the advice I will give a try I will wait for moremembers to respond to my listing as well I trust your opinion, however one or two more confirming opinions from some of the senior members will be quite supportive for me For your information the amount involved is 500$ Regards Graf

I agree with you Ben. The fact is that I have the EK and he has my money, therefore the problem is mine He is a registered Dealer here in Australia.. He will not accept that EK is not an original unless I have a certificate by someone who is an "expert" in the field Regards Graf

Hi guys, Just an update for the EK1 with a round 3 I contacted the dealer and asked him the buy it back. He refused claiming that the EK1 in his opinion is ORIGINAL and also that because I bought it more then 4 years ago he is not liable any more. I do not have a heart to pass it to unsuspecting novice as original, therefore i have to keep it in the drawer with other repros. Regards Graf

Hi Ben, Thank yo ufor the comments It is interisting, because I was pazzled with the fact that the core is original and the frame looks new There is no any Maker mark on the frame -the EK is unmarked It is a bad news for me however a good news for collectors ..they can see what is in the market at tne moment Regards Graf

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now --reverse view