Dave Wilkinson

The photo below shows the uniform cap worn by Henry Riches who was the Chief Constable of Middlesbrough between 1902 and 1930 and a further image of Mr. Riches wearing the cap as part of his uniform. Not surprisingly, the cap is beginning to show its age, but is all there. It was manufactured by Try & Lilly Ltd., of Liverpool. That family run company still exists in Liverpool and is still making uniform headdress for the military and police forces at home and overseas. Dave

This particular Merseyside Police ceremonial helmet replaced the "Liverpool City" version which we talked about previously. The change took place in circa.1983. Again supplied by Christy's of Stockport, the helmet shown is the version which is worn by Sergeants and Constables. There is a helmet which has chrome plated edging to the peak which is worn by the OIC of the mounted section. You will notice that the side "roses" are smaller than the previous issue, and it includes the current (ceremonial) version of the Merseyside Police helmet plate. A sign of the times is that the plumes are now made of a synthetic material whereas the old Liverpool City versions were made of real horse hair. Traditionally, the red plume is worn by mounted drummers. Dave.

Hi, The interior of the Mer.Pol. helmet is as shown in the below photo. The force used to buy the basic helmet shells (made of compressed felt) from Christy's of Stockport (long gone). They would then transfer the metalwork from the old helmet shell and then fit it to the new one. Hence the use of King's Crown helmet plates. As I said previously the helmets were worn by different men as and when required. For reasons of hygiene, paper skull caps were used on each occasion. You are right, its not too comfortable to wear and I can imagine trying to ride and control a horse while wearing one would be quite trying. With regard to Met.Pol. Inspectors helmets. I did at one time have an example but have long since parted with it. Interestingly I recall one being worn by a Chief Inspector who was standing in Westminster Hall during the Queen's lying in state. So, although I don't think they are issued any longer, they are obviously still in the possession of certain people who are still serving. It will be interesting to see if any of them get an airing during the forthcoming Coronation. Apart from the forces you mention, I think the BTP also issued them at one time. As for wear during public order situations, I don't think they were very popular. The distinctive appearance tended to mark the wearer out as a potential target, especially by stone throwers. Dave.

In an attempt to generate some discussion of this subject I'm going to post some further images from my helmet collection. First up is a Liverpool City Police Chief Inspector's helmet. The gent who wore this helmet was the officer commanding the Liverpool City Police, Liverpool & Bootle Constabulary and Merseyside Police Mounted Department (up until circa. 1984). Just to clarify, although the plate has on it the King's Crown and the Liverpool City wording, the helmets continued to be worn by the mounted men on ceremonial occasions across the time period of the three forces through to 1983. They were expensive items for the force to buy and were only worn on two or three occasions each year. There was no personal issue. They were drawn from the Mounted Dept. Stores for the event and returned immediately after. This particular helmet was a "one off". It was the only one with chrome edging to the peak, and was worn by the one and only Chief Inspector commanding the Dept. They were often seen being worn on "Grand National" day. In 1983, the whole of the "Liverpool City" stock of helmets were withdrawn and replaced by the current "Merseyside" badged version which continues in use to this day. That said, they are now seldom if ever worn. I will show the Merseyside current version in a later post. Dave.

Thought this may be of interest to members. Dave.

These are not an issue item, They are being produced by an enterprising individual for profit. Dave.

Its a long time since anyone contributed to this thread so here are a couple of items from my collection. Firstly, a cap worn by the Chief Constable of Rochdale during the early part of the 20th century and a ceremonial helmet worn by Inspectors in the City of London Police. The latter item ceased to be used during the 1960's. Dave.

There are actually a number of stated cases already on the statute book which touch upon whether a bobby is correctly dressed or not. None of those cases favoured the appellant. Most relate to the (then) newly introduced drink drive legislation whereby a constable in uniform had power to demand a breath test from a motorist. The basis for the appeal being that the officer was not wearing a helmet/cap at the time of the request. It was held that despite the absence of headgear he/she WAS in uniform. So, the fact that the wrong Sovereign's Crown/cipher was being worn will not wash with the courts. Dave.

Try the National Archives at Kew. The HM Coastguard have since its formation fallen under the control of a variety of Government Departments, so you may have to try a number of differing headings. From memory they were initially the responsibility of the Admiralty then the Board of Trade and most recently the Dept. of Transport. You say your medal is from the Victorian period so on that basis any medal role records will be at Kew. Best of luck. Dave.

There is already a thread on this under "New Title for Hampshire Constabulary". The design was first "launched" in November 2022. That said they are apparently not changing the headdress badges.

You will see that the Winnipeg Police "notice" makes clear that badges and other items will be replaced through attrition. In other words current stocks will all be used before new ones are introduced. Dave.

My pleasure. Dave.

Oldham Borough Police, without a doubt. Dave.

Possibly a state police medal of some sort. Dave.

Coins, unless of an obsolete denomination are such that they tend to last and circulate for 60,70 or 80 years (and longer). So, they don't really fall into the same category as medals, stamps, badge and associated items of uniform. The mint presumably have a coin replacement/circulation policy which caters for a certain number of coins to be put into circulation each year. They presumably don't hold stocks and so to comply with their policy they would have to "mint" new coins. So, why not do so using a new die featuring the King's profile? As a aside, such enquiries that I've been able to make with several police forces have confirmed that they have no intention of changing the cipher (where used) or crown on any of their headdress badges in the immediate future. Dave.

He appears to be wearing a Metropolitan Special Constabulary uniform. The cap badge is certainly that of the MSC. His shoulder title is "HQCD" (Headquarters Central Detachment). He is probably a senior officer, although his rank markings (if that is what they are) are not familiar to me. I show herewith the cap badge he is wearing. I hope this is helpful. Dave.

Well said!

The King has apparently made it known that stocks (of anything?) are not to be destroyed simply because they bear the image of the late Queen or her Cipher. They are all to be used prior to any new versions are produced bearing his image etc. He's told Royal Mail that they must use all their stocks of old issue EIIR stamps before commencing to use those showing his image. It seems obvious that this also applies to medals. "King’s Effigy on medals, to be issued imminently". This thread was started on 4th October 2022. I don't think so any time soon!

That's kind of you to say so. Thank you! Dave.

Norman, I think you may have cracked it then! Dave.

The cap badge is the bullion wire coat of arms of Coventry. I think that they are Coventry bobbies as those bullion wire badges were indeed worn by Senior Officers of Coventry City Police as can be seen in the second image of my badge grouping from there. Dave.

The cap & badge he is wearing and his lack of a duty armlet suggests that he is a member of a divisional band. Most, but not all Metpol. divisions maintained their own bands. They sometimes adopted a cap badge other than a Metpol. issued version. They were usually funded via their divisional welfare contributions. The name/location of the photographer is not really relevant as both the photographers and their subjects often travelled. Dave.

I Hannah, If you prepare a suitable letter and forward that sealed letter to the personnel dept of Sussex Police, with a request that it be posted on to Mr. Hibbert, that is one way of being able to contact him. Sussex Police will be paying Mr. Hibbert a pension and it follows that they will have his current address. For obvious reasons they will not give that information to you. However, they will pass on your letter to him. I myself have used this method of contacting retired bobbies and it works. I hope this is helpful. Dave.

Norman, Your overall collection of Channel Islands insignia is outstanding and your Parish Police badges especially. If we each had everything there would be no challenge anymore and it would cease to be the enjoyable pastime that it is. I've not added anything from the Parishes in the last few years. I really must try to get over sometime this year and if I'm able to make it I'll give you a shout. Dave.

Hope you are well Norman. I think I have quite a few of the 35 Police Honorifique variations you need but you're not getting them! Thanks for the info. in respect of the warrant badge, which I was not aware of. I agree the current badges are of poor quality. At least they've had the Inspectors badge finished in hard fired enamel instead of the cheap plastic epoxy. Best wishes for 2023. Dave.