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Deelibob

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Everything posted by Deelibob

  1. Hi Ralph, I too am a member of the BPPA as I was its predecessor the PPOCA but do not subscribe to Facebook. I am afraid I cannot be of much use regarding information as my humble effort depicted above is, give or take, the sum total of my knowledge on Supt Wilkin. Regards Peter Dellius
  2. Hello Dave, Yes indeed, too late now but in more ways than one I am afraid. Some time ago I read that Government had decided that all unclaimed medals held by the various services were to be destroyed by melting and that all monies from the smelting of these medals would go to the Exchequer. I immediately wrote to the Army Medal office at Worcester , now the Tri Service medal Office, asking that my comments be forwarded to the correct authority. (This letter remains unanswered) Realising that to try and reason with government Departments is like trying to empty the Atlantic with a spoon I took the path of pointing out the price of scrap silver against the price of selling the medals to collectors. These medals would include Peninsula War & Battle of Waterloo participants, Men who took part in the Charge of the Light Brigade, Rorkes Drift Defenders, Defenders at Mafeking not to mention members of the ill-fated Franklin expedition and so on right up to WWII Etc Etc. Many thousands of pounds could be raised from the scrap silver but I would vouchsafe that the result of a sale to collectors would reap millions for the Country. So I suppose the refusal to issue William's GSM pales against the scale of damage wrought by such an act of institutional vandalism. Madness utter Madness. Peter
  3. William Birch joined the Palestine Police c. 1930 as Constable 720. He was later joined by his Fiancee Margaret Gettle ( altered from the German Goetel during WW1) and they were married in Palestine c. 1935 and adopted the Colonial lifestyle. They did not have children. On the 1st October 1938, William was leading a patrol in Ramallah when they were fired upon and Willam Killed. He was buried with full Military Honours on Mount Zion, Jerusalem. His widow returned to her home Town Liverpool, England where she died many years later, she did not re marry. Three Arabs stood trial on 14th of October, 1938 and sentenced to death by hanging, Izzat Hussein Abdul Ramhman aged 30, Ali Yusef Ahmed aged 28 and Hassan Abdul Muti aged 29 from Beir Nabala near Ramallah. All three were found in a house with rifles and I am not sure if they were sentenced for the murder or their possession of the rifles. They were duly executed The above story was related to me by an elderly lady who was related to Margaret. She had in her possession a solid silver sports medal named to William, I enquired the whereabouts of his General Service Medal and was informed that the Family had no knowledge. I made enquiries with the Worcester medal office and was informed that the medal remained unclaimed. An application for the medal was made on 17th June 2005 and turned into a saga, the outcome being that my elderly friend(now deceased) was too distant a relation and as no other family remained the application was refused. And so Williams medal remains on a shelf and the only testament to his service and sacrifice is a humble sports medal, which is coveted in my collection
  4. I somehow became the owner of this lovely photograph, I do not collect such items but thought the members of this thread may like to see it. I assume it is an in memoriam card of some description but is not the usual type as it is a card cabinet photo. I hope it is of interest Peter
  5. Just my luck but will content myself with thought that the badge was possibly worn by one of the above. Thank you so much for your kind and informative help. Regards Peter
  6. Odin, Many thanks for you efforts on my behalf but my mans number is W 16 the photo is a little distorted but the original is clearly W16. I am much obliged for your help. and overawed by the information you have. Again Many thanks Peter
  7. A bit of a Forlorn Hope but I was hoping that a clued up Metropolitan Police Collector Member of Forum may be able to put a name to this Sergeant. The items were purchased in Bognor Regis. Due to the Lack of WW1 or Coronation Medals I would tentatively say it is probably circa 1910 to 1930 ish (I Stand to be corrected of course) Here's hoping Regards Peter
  8. Hi Simon, The rear of the badge is very difficult to make out but having enlisted the help of a pair of young eyes the badge reads : On horseshoe fitting Reg.638232 Around top Reg. em 833656 Around bottom Thomas Fattorini Bolton Hope this helps as I don't think badge will scan too well. This badge was in a Princess Mary WWI box with a 1914-15 Trio (Coldstream Guards) and Lverpool City Police medals, to Wilfred Clarke HARE, who was from the North East but joined Liverpool City Police 1912, joined Army at outbreak of war (Maybe recalled to Colours) rejoined Police as Constable 105"B" after being wounded and discharged (correct Wound Badge with Group) He was not a Striker as he retired on 25/1/1937 after 25 years service but may have been a NUPPO member. Who knows he may have been one of the 50 "Lost Sheep" who returned to the fold before the deadline set by the Watch Committee thus escaping the fate of approx. 955 colleagues who were cast into the wilderness of unemployment. Wilfred passed away on 17/12/1966 aged 75 years. Hope of interest Peter
  9. Thanks Fellas, Simon, It is at present in a frame but it has a horse shoe fitting and is a lapel badge. I will have a look to see if it is named and " Attempt" to scan and post an image. I do know of several relatives of strikers who wear a NUPPO badge in honour of their forebear. Peter
  10. Many years ago when trawling through Antique or Junk shops it was not uncommon to come across a NUPPO badge, usually accompanying Police Badges or Medals. Not so these days as the badges seldom come to light but do appear from time to time on e-bay. I think that Metropolitan Police, Birmingham City, Birkenhead or Liverpool Police Medal/s to a Striker would be enhanced with the display of a Badge that signifies the sacrifice that came with Loyalty to the National Union Of Police and Prison Officers. Peter
  11. The surname Ind is not a common name and I thought it may be worth you researching Alfred Ernest Ind who won a VC during the boer war. He was born 1872 in Tetbury, Gloucestershire which is only 40 miles from Wooton Bassett, Wilts,the birthplace of William Ind. There may be a family connection perhaps.
  12. Constble 72"A" of the Liverpool Police posing for the Camera on Lime Street " with his donkeys breakfast" during the Transport Strike of 1911. Members of the Birmingham City Police marching towards St Georges Hall to take up positions, shortly after rioting broke out and terrible injuries sustained by both Police and Transport strikers/supporters alike. A KPM was won that day by a Birmingham Constable who went to the aid of an isolated and badly injured Birmingham Superintendent. The Constable was severely injured too.
  13. In the Liverpool Police the straw helmets were known as " A Donkeys Breakfast "
  14. Thanks BJOW, very interesting and informative, I am most grateful for your help. Regards Peter
  15. Can anyone assist with information on a PC W(illiam) PIPER, "E" Division Metropolitan Police. He is entitled to an 1887 Jubilee medal. That's all I know at present. Thanks Peter (Deelibob)
  16. Hi Steve, My friend the Sergeant is Grandaughter to Bert but her Mother will be making the claim as Bert's Daughter.

    Thanks for your Efforts.

    Peter

    1. Polsa999

      Polsa999

      Hi Peter

      Paul Crowther the BTP Chief Constable is an old colleague of mine so I have one of his staff officers running around. Apparently they have not had this type of request recently so no-one knows the procedure. Its moving forward.

      Regards

       

      Steve

    2. Polsa999

      Polsa999

      Hi Peter

      Still work in progress....nearly there!

      Best wishes

      Steve

       

  17. I have seen a photograph of a relative taken 1943 in which he sports the ribbon of the 1939-45 star. There was also an article many years ago regarding medal ribbon collector Lionel Guille (Founder Member of OMRS) and photo of him inspecting WW2 Medal ribbon being manufactured in 1942/43. So it is possible that Christie is wearing the Defence Medal ribbon. I do not know of serial killers but certainly know of five men who served in WW1 went on to kill and took the nine o'clock walk for their trouble. The Blazing car Murderer, Travelling Salesman Alfred Rouse, 24th London Regiment, wounded during a bayonet fight at Festubert 1915 and discharged wounded with a Silver war badge badge 1916. (Suffered terrible nightmares) Entitled to WW1 Trio. The Crowborough Chicken Farm Murderer, Small holding owner Norman Thorne. Entitled BWM and Victory (Poss. Named to RNAS) "The Dandelion Dead" Murderer,Solicitor Herbert Rowse Armstrong TD MA Entitled to TD,TEM and BWM. Don't think he served overseas. (It may be that the TEM was handed in on his being awarded the TD as some officers did) Police Killers, Garage Owners Browne and Kennedy who murdered Essex Police Constable George Gutteridge c. 1927 during the theft of a Morris Cowley motor car. I believe both entitled to Trio's but not confirmed. I would not doubt there are many more. Hope of interest. Peter OMRS = Orders and Medals Research Society
  18. Spot on Dave, he was a Paid Police War Reserve and as such not entitled to Special Cons Faithful Service medal. As far as I am aware he is only entitled to a First War Medal and Victory. It is possible he may have worn a 14/15 star ribbon when not entitled.(There is certainly more than two medal ribbons on the bar he wears.) He served with the Duke Wellingtons Yorkshire Regiment and was invalided out due to Mustard Gas poisoning. He is/was entitled to a silver wound badge.
  19. Hi, There is a small book called " The Tottenham Outrage" written in 2009 to coincide with the anniversary and available (or Was) from the Tottenham Council/Amenities. It is very in depth and will answer all your questions. My understanding is that at some stage during the chase the two Letts meandered over or close to the "J" Division border and were engaged by officers of that Division. In the book a full list is given of those Civilian and Police, Killed, Wounded, Awarded KPM's, Commendations or Notes to Constables Credit. Regards Peter
  20. Hi Steve,

    Again thanks for the information, I am at present getting ready to do some research on him, I will send full details of his citation and the location of incident for inclusion on the BTPHG site.

    The main reason for this message is that I initially went to the BTPHG site to view Michaels entry thereon, I then viewed Police Roll of Honour Trust and was a bit confused/dismayed to see he was not included on it.(AS best as I could see, but I do attend Spec Savers) I mention this just in case it has been an oversight and he is meant to be on the PRofHT.

    Regards

    Peter Dellius

    1. Polsa999

      Polsa999

      Hi Peter

      Thanks for the heads up, past experience with the PRoHT is not great. Additions to their Roll takes a great deal of time and for some reason never happens! However saying that, the HG do keep them updated. Thanks for the offer to keep us updated.

      Best wishes

      Steve Beamon

    2. Deelibob

      Deelibob

      Hi Steve,

      I was perusing an old Auction list (C.2010) and came across this pair of medals. Defence medal with Kings Commendation Oak Leaf for brave conduct and the LMS silver medal for courage.

      They were awarded to Special Constable Herbert George Thomas of Sheffield (Wicker) 12th December 1941 for Courage during the Blitz on Sheffield.

      I presume he was a Sheffield special but worked for LMS or could be the Gallant act took place on LMS land.

      Just two medals the LMS is shown Obverse and Reverse. They sold for £1000.oo

      Thought you may be interested.

      Regards, Peter

      56d194d7e9f2f_LMSThomas.jpg.b96663d13cd6

    3. Polsa999

      Polsa999

      Thanks Peter...sorry for delay in replying but not been so good! Will pass on the information for investigation. Best wishes Steve

      A quick reply.....yes there was a guy with this name who was a LMS police special but was based at Bow in London....thanks for the information. We now have to find out whether this is the correct one.....was the information about Sheffield on the eBay entry? Joined LMS specials on 25/09/1939 and left 24/09/1945 to return to the railway.

  21. Nilsen was attached, as a cook, to the Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders, famous for their exploits in the Crater District of Aden under Col."Mad Mitch" Mitchell. I have seen a photograph of Nilsen wearing a A&SH Glengarry. The medal was sold in London and I have kept a weathered eye out for it since the 70's and to my knowledge it has never appeared. Sadly it could have fallen victim to the trend at the time of jeweller's using GSM's to Corps as replacements by skimming name off and renaming.This was done before reasonable copies were available on the market.
  22. This is the first I have heard of this matter but for what it is worth here is what I know of the issuing process. The HR (Personnel as was) note the officer is entitled to the Exemplary Police Service Medal ( Known to all and sundry as the LS&GC) They make a list of those eligible, ie 20 years Service (22 years as was) they forward the list to the Professional Standards Department (Discipline Department as was) for a Check as to whether there are any matters past, present or pending which would exclude an officer from being awarded the medal. If all clear the HR submit the names for approval to the Home Secretary in the case of most forces but in the case of Port, Tunnel Police etc to the Secretary of State for Transport, when approved the HR forward the list to the Royal mint who will strike, name and supply the medals to the Force in question. The Mint do not issue medals they supply them to the Police from a list supplied to them by the HR of the Force concerned. The fault for false information given to the Mint must lay with the HR. I speak from experience as I have been involved in the process.
  23. BJofW, Please bear with me as I am new to Met.Police collecting but I think that you may find that PC Thompson has a (Tenuous) link with the Jack the Ripper I have the following from a book on the murders. I do not own the book (and alas do not recall the title) and this is from rough notes I made from it. On the 13th February 1891, Pc 240"H" Ernest Thompson was on his first lone night patrol when he disturbed the Murderer of Frances Cole ( who some believe was a Ripper victim) in Swallow Gardens, although he heard the receding footsteps of the assailant he saw Frances's eyelid move and so in accordance with force orders he stayed with the victim who he deemed alive. A decision he was to regret for the rest of his short life. He was stabbed to death by a Barnett Abrahams having moved him on once after a disturbance at a Cabmans refreshment stall. I am sure this information can be verified Regards Peter
  24. Odin, Many thanks for your helpful information and advice as always. Regards Peter
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