Gordon Craig

Ulsterman, It would be nice if there were KISZ reference material all over the place but just ain't so! There are lots of KISZ badges, awards etc. available but no way to tell what they were awarded for. Like pulling teeth to find the info. You have to love the chase!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cheers, Gordon

Ulsterman, The KISZ badge is one of five awarded, yours being the top one. Starting with the number "1" they get progressively larger, have a wreath added etc. There is one more larger badge of the same design without a number that may be from the same series as it is of the same design pattern. I'm working on an article on KISZ and I'll save posting the series until then. By the way, I don't have a number five yet but I do have the rest of them. I spoke to the dealer I bought them from and he had been in KISZ but couldn't remember what they were awarded for. More research for the future! Cheers, Gordon

Ulsterman, I assume you were referring to the star shaped badges? If so, those are the Killian Sports Badges. They are worn about the right breast pocket and exist in earlier versions. Here is a picture of one in the box of badges. Following that is the earlier version of the same badge from the Rakoci era on one of my tunics. There is an earlier version that I have only seen a line drawing of in the Hungarian Army Gazette. Regards, Gordon Sorry, they got posted in reverse order to the way I uploaded them. The badge with KTP at the bottom is the Killian badge.

Ulsterman, Good eyes! This guy must have been the workaholic of all time. Interesting that he engraved this one as well. These are indeed very impressive document holders. With the raised award on the surface and then the complex document itself they are a work of art. No doubt Charles will use his knowledge of Hungarian to answer the questions asked. Regards, Gordon

Jeff, There have been a couple of the Csendor annual books on ebay recently. One for 1907 that I was watching but didn't bid on because someone wanted it far more then I did. A couple of weeks ago a 1927 edition came up and I was able to successfully bid on that one as it went for approx half the price of the 1907 edition. As Charles says, there don't seem to be many of them around. Both Charles and I would like one from the war time period, or at least shortly before, and we will just have to keep looking. Regards, Gordon

Gents, Here are three stamps that were issued by the Soviet Union in 1990 in honour of the joint Soviet Hungarian space flight. It probably won't show up in these pictures but under a magnifying class the Cosmonauts are readily identifiable. Regards, Gordon

Gents, Last Saturday at the monthly Militaria Show here in Budapest I bought a uniform that the vendor said he "thought" was for a prison guard. During the week I have been researching a stamp that I found inside the tunic and on the outside of the pants. As is usual with stamps in uniforms it was not totally readable. I sought assistance from a Hungarian collector who has tentatively identified the stamp as reading "MEGYEI TBC GY?GYINT?ZET DOBA" and has translated that as "County Medical Institute for Tuberculosis". Doba is the name of a small town. I would ike to ask if anyone else out there knows anything about these uniforms. It is made from a heavy wool material usually associated with enlisted personnel rather than officers. It is a medium grey/blue colour. It has loops on the shoulders for shoulder boards but no buttons. Shoulderboards were held onto Hungarian uniforms in the early 50's using a manner that did not require the use of shoulder board buttons attahced to the tunic and this same system seems to have been used on this tunic. However, the style of the tunic and the crest on the buttons indicate use and manurfacture around the mid 60s. Pictures of the uniform, the buttons and the interior stamp are posted below.

Charles, Nice looking banner. It makes wonder though if the Socialista Brigads had names as individual units or would they have used the company name? The Diploma that I have appears to be associated with the Posta Szervez. There are two stamps on the Diploma but part of each is obscured. I'll have to bring it with me sometime when we are getting together and perhaps, with your knowledge of Hungarian, you can figure out the parts I can not read. Perhaps on the 14th when we meet at the Museum. Regards, Gordon

Deker, Very nice badge thanks for the pictures. Charles, Thanks for the info. Cheers, Gordon

Richard S, Thanks for adding the colour photos. Very nice closeups of the Hungarian badges on the space suits. I have to correct my earlier statement that Bertalan was wearing the Free Fall badge in an earlier picture that I posted. From these pictures it is easy to see he was wearing the Pilots Badge. I should have realized that before. Charles, Good question about the badge. It is probably a KISZ badge, like one of the suspension ones we saw at the show on Saturday, and someone has wiped out the badge because of the communist insignia. According to the 75 uniform regulations they were allowed to wear some KISZ badges/awards but there is no mention of permission to wear Red Cross awards. We can go through that tomorrow when I bring over that section of the 75 regs. Cheers, Gordon

Gents, No one showed a "Sztahanavista" with numbers on the back. Mine isn't numbered. Were they? Cheers, Gordon

Charles, Great pictures. I've heard of KABSZ before but didn't realize it was as wide reaching s it appears to be from the photos you posted. Regards, Gordon

Charles, Congratulations on going back and buying that matched set. A very nice addition to your collection! Something for me to shoot for! That is indeed an unusual catch. Don't believe I've seen that one before. Cheers, Gordon

Mike, Ah yes, Snider's Treasures". What an unusual chap! The arm band you mentioned could have been one of just a few made although from the sounds of it well made. I don't ever remember reading about anyone rounding up people after Operation Margarethe who wasn't wearing a black Arrow Cross uniform but then again there isn't a lot in print about them. The arrow cross stamps on documents awarding medals etc were certainly removed at the end of the war. I saw an award document for a Vitez at the December Militaria Show here in Budapest and in the location where the authorization stamp is normally placed there was just a neat round hole. Hopefully I will get to visit The House of Terror soon. My wife even mentioned visiting it this morning at breakfast! Strange coincidence? Just as an illustration of things that happened re the Arrow Cross in the last few months of the war, here is a picture of the Arrow Cross stamp that the Vannay Battalion used to authenticate their documents with the Arrow Cross. It wasn't an official stamp because there wern't any so they engraved their own. The photo is from Ervin Galantay's book "Boy Soldier". Regards, Gordon

Mike, Thanks for posting the pages from Bender's book. I am due for a visit to "The House Of Terror" on Andrasi ut and will move that up on my list of things to do soon. Since this address, 60 Andrasi, was the headquarters of the Arrow Cross before it became the headquarters of the AVH they might have some pictures showing this armband in wear. Regards, Gordon

Ulsterman, The website you posted is the one I refered to in my post. No guarantee that this medal is correct for that period but another piece of information. Send me Ms Koltai's phone number and email address and I'll contact her for you. Your interest in Red Cross medals has sparked my interest. In any countries military that I study I eventually get interested in the civilian uniforms. The military uniforms and medals etc. reflect the country but the civilian uniforms tend to do so even more so. In Hungary there is little to nothing known about civilian uniforms of the Communist era. To my sensabilities that is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. I just cannot resist a challenge and need to research those uniforms. I've already started on the firemen and Finance/Customs Guards uniforms and I hope I can move onto the the Parilamentary Guard soon. The Military Museum has one Postal uniform and that is it. Cheers, Gordon

Gents, It would be interesting to see one of these worn on a uniform. I am also curious as to why the crown is present on an Arrow Cross arm band. Here is a picture of the Arrow Cross insignia arm band being worn by Hungarian Officers shortly after the success of Operation MARGARETHE. Regards, Gordon

Hunyadi, This must be your "Christmas Present". I'll have to have a look at it some day. Especially the Rakoci era photos. Cheers, Gordon

Charles, Interesting stuff. Last Wednesday was certinly productive! I wish now that I had of stayed with you! I am off to the Museum again tomorrow. Have to shoot some pictures of two Communist era Para badges. One from my colection and one from the mueums that lives in Tama's office. I think I will pay avisit to the library myself just to look arond and see if the photocopier has arrived yet! Regards, Gordon

Ulsterman, Thanks for your contribution. I was going to post much more after the ribbons but had so much trouble posting the ribbons that I quit in frustration!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. The post Communist era ribbon charts I have do not show Red Cross ribbons but if you compare the red ribbon with the Hungarian colours on it on the ribbon chart to the 100 medal mentioned by Ulsterman they are the same ribbon. Now back to where I was going to go originally, or at least I hope so. The next picture is of a J? MUNK?ERT or Good Worker badge from the Communist era. I have a Good Worker badge which I beleive is from the post Communist era and is of a completely different design. The little round badge posted next is also listed on a web site as being from the communist era but there is no proof of that. I will also post a picture of a cased KIV?LO V?RADO Excellent Blood Donor badge that is listed on at least one internet site as being from the Communist era.

Gents, There seems to be enough interest in this one class of award that I thought I would start a thread on them alone. If we leave it in the "Hungarian Peoples Republic Awards" I think it will be too difficult to search through all of the other posts and put all of the relavent material together. I am going to start with Hunyadi's post that he translated from "The Book" and then post some pictures, some of which will raise questions and hopefully create some answers as well. When Ulsterman receives the things he is waiting for from the Hungarian Red Cross perhaps we can sort the whole range of awards, stick pins etc. out. Excelent Blood Donner - Kivalo Verado Bronze class 10 donations, Silver 15, Gold 20. Every year there were about 1300 gold ,about 2500 silver and 10,000 bronze distributed. Bronze came with 500ft prize, Silver 1000 ft and gold 1500 ft. After 30 blood donations the ribbon was switched to a green color and this was awarded to about 400 people per year. after 40 a blue ribbon (about 100 people per year) and 50 a yellow ribbon (about 50 people per year were awarded.) No mention as to when the award was created or what color the ribbon was for the Bronze, Silver and Gold class below 20 donations (? - perhaps it was only a badge??). Excelent Blood Donor Technician Badge - Kivalo Veradoszervezo For service in the field of the Red Cross as a worker in the blood donation centers and activities. The badge was awarded after five years of service. The badge was insituted in 1975. Execlent Work in the Red Cross Badge - Voroskeresztes Munkaert Gold, Silver and Bronze classes. Awarded by the Leadeship Council of the Hungarian Red Cross for exemplarary service in the Hungarian Red Cross. Bronze class awarded after 5 years of serivce and came with a 1500 huf award and was awarded to about 250 people per year. Silver class for 10 years of serivce, a 2000 huf award and about 150 individuals per year. Gold class was for more than 10 years of service, but could also be bestowed for a certain meritiorious work. Came with a 3000 huf bonus and about 120 people were awarded per year. Excelent Red Cross Workers Badge - Voroskereszt Kivalo Dolgozoja Awarded by the Leadership Council of the Hungarian Red Cross for distinguised work over a period of time concering the technical operations of the Red Cross (machines, equipment, etc...) The award was bestowed about 10 times per year and the recipient received a 1500 huf bonus. As for cases - Red and Deep Wine Red (Order of Labor, Order of Hungarian Freedom, and April 4th Order) for state awards. Blue and Gray are seen for Red Cross and Firemans awards. For the commemorative Red Cross awards (100 years in Hungary for example) these came in a sand brown case. Here is a copy of part of a ribbon chart from the web. I can not guarantee its authenticity but I think it will prove interesting. Gordon hungcomredcross.bmp hungcomredcross.bmp

Robin, Did the site you found these pictures on identify where the pictures were taken? Regards, Gordon

Ian, Thanks for straightening me out on that. A mistake on my part. Regards, Gordon

Theodor, Thanks very much for taking the time to do all of this work. I have an interest in Bulgarian uniforms, among others, and it is nice to know the names of at least some of the pins that could be found on them. Regards, Gordon

Grant, The DDR used the standard Russian Dragunov. They did not produce their own version of this rifle as some WP countries did. Regards, Gordon