Gordon Craig

Gents, With some item of memorabilia that we collect, there comes a "story". I am going to start this thread with a "story". Last Saturday morning, Charles and I met at our usual 8:00 at the monthly Militaria Show in Budapest. The only difference this time was that I had a friend along so Charles and I didn't spend the whole morning together. At one point, Charles was offered a bunch cased and uncased awards for x Forints but wasn't interested. Some time later, my friend and I happened to staop at the same table and were made the same offer. I stood there for a while pondering buying the awards, most of which I did not need, and while I stood there pondering the vendor kept adding item after item and when he finally stopped I said Ok. It took the both us to lug the stuff to the car. Not large items but too much for one pair of hands. I did so well at that table once I went back a second time and picked up the subject of this post. A 10 ?VES T?RZSG?RDA IGAZOLV?NY. There is no simple one word translation for T?RZSG?RDA. Basically what this is is a Certificate recognizing 10 years of faitful service to the CSEPEL VAS-?S F?MMŰVEK (Csepel Iron and Metal works). Csepel is the largest island in the Danube by Budapest and the Csepel Iron and Metal works is well known for manufacturing tanks and Messerschmit fighters for the Hungarian Armed Forces in WWII. In the pictures below you will see the plastic folder that the certificate comes in. Inside the folder is ther certificate giving the recipients name, the nuber of the certificate , date and place of birth of the recipient, the name of the company the rcipient worked for, and the date of the award. Inside the folder, in a celophane envelope was a paper called a T?RZSG?RDA - TAG with the 10 year pin stuck through it. On the other side of the TAG is the pins number "6415" with a repeat of the information on the other document. What I find interesting about this pin is that it was numbered. The number is actually engraved on the back of the pin. In the load of stuff I got at this vendors table were some 10 and 15 year pins to this company and some were numbered and some were not. This indicated to me that they were only numbered when awarded. T?RZSG?RDA pins are common and come in an endless variety of shapes, sizes and colours but this is the first company I have seen that numbers their pins. I find these pins interesting because there were so many of them. I imagine the majority of workers didn't get awards or a Stahanavista so these pins would have been well received as thanks for a job well done. I good I dea I think rather than waiting until some one retires to give them a momento. As I sort through my box of goodies I'l post more of these pins to give you an idea of the wide variety of styles. If anyone out there has some, please post them as well. Regards, Gordon

Grant, You didn't ask to see it, but I thought you might also be interested in seein a picture of the Russian Academy badge that also came with the tunic. Regards, Gordon

Grant, Here is a closeup of the ribbon bar you asked for. Regards, Gordon

Kevin, Thanks for posting the link to the WAF. I thought that I had posted pictures of my double VVO spange on that thread and was surprised not to see it there. Perhaps it was on another thread because I know I posted it there once. Torsten commented that there appeared to be some enamel damage to my pair which was unfortunatley correct. Too bat they are packed away in storage and I can not post pictures of them here. Cheers, Gordon

Dan, Interesting url for the VVOs. If you look at the backs of the medals you will see the difference in construction of the earlier and later models. There are more than two issues but this will do for a start. The bronze is a late issue with the ribbon held on by bending over two pins and a simple hook that the actual medal hangs from. Notice also that the back is rough rather than smooth. The silver and gold grades have the ribbon and the medal hanger held together by two screws. Note that the medal hanger is composed of two loops of wire and that the backs of the medals are smooth. Also note the barrel latch and pin arrangement on the silver and gold grades versus the much simplified pin arrangement on the bronze. The silver and gold grades do not appear to have any silver hallmarks on them however so they are probably the issue just prior to the last one. Cann't remember all of the details right off and don't want to make a mistake in my post so will close with these comments and do a better job in the future. Regards, Gordon

Charles, Number 1094 please. Cheers, Gordon

Picture number 3

Picture number 2

Gents, I've had some time to spend analysing the silver Order of War Merit of Hungarian Freedom that Charles posted and I have come to the conclusion that the medal is a fake. The picture comparison between the one Charles posted and the ones Richard posted indicate this but not conclusively. I don't have an authentic medal like Richard does for comparison purposes with the one Charles posted but I do own the medal that seems to have been the basis for the design which is the Magyar Szabadsag Erdemrend. When you compare these two medals, and Richards posted medals, it is easy to see where the one Charles posted does not measure up. I should tell you at this point that I now own the medal Charles posted. Charles did not sell it to me or anyone else. I'll let him tell you what he did with it. There are three pictures of what from now on I will refer to as the fake shown below. Here the major things I find wrong with it, aside from the differences in measurements noted in an earlier post; 1-the detail of the front of the medal is not as sharp as the original posted by Richard or my comparison piece next to it; 2-Richard's medal seems to have the same type of ring on the medal as the bronze one in my picture. Look at the large clumsy looking ring on the fake; 3-the ray at the bottom of the fake is missing the cetral ray projecting from the centre portion. In inspecting it I would say there never was a projecting piece from this ray; 4-the green painted wreath on the fake goes all the way around without any breaks in it. On my bronze comparison medal and the one Richard posted the green enamel is not present on the crossed ribbon pieces on the four sides of the medal. All that being said, I am glad that I now own this piece as it gives me, and I hope the viewers, a reliable way to identify a fake from a real one should you ever come across one of these medals.

Richard, Would you please post a picture of the Silver medal you have which is the same as the one Charles posted. Soecifically how the ribbon is attached to the medal back. They appear to be different and I would like to be able to compare them. Regards, Gordon

William, The only book I am aware of on Yugslav badges is "Yugoslavia Army Insignia & Deorations 1918-1990 by Brian Furlan and Henad Bjeols. My copy was printed in 1991 and was published by Militaria House, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The ISBN is 0-929757-43-2. It is a photocopy type of book so there are no colour shots of anything except the cover. There is also a book called "Insignia of the Army of Yugoslavia". This book was published in 1997 in Belgrade and only 6500 copies were made. It covers the insignia adopted from 1994 to 1997 and shows uniforms and unit shoulder patches. The ISBN is 86-335-0027-2. This book is in Serbian and English Regards, Gordon

Grant, I'll post the General's ribbon bar as soon as I find the time. It belonged to the General that wore the tunic. I'm sure Dudley will do a post on his early cammo uniform so I will only say that there are a few different models of jacket and that although it resembles the Russian WWII omeaba pattern these uniforms were designed and made in Germany. East German forestry tunics are not common but like most things some are more common than others. Early tunics and uniforms for women are rare. Uniforms for the NVA Forestry Service are super rare. I'll post pictures of some of my DDR Forestry stuff when I get a chance. Regards, Gordon

Ulsterman, Sounds like the badge I saw. The PPSHs were very bright and the lettering on the back was in the correct place but not as crisp as on other badges I have seen. Can you post a picture of both sides of the badge? Regards, Gordon

Grant, There may be some association between the Pestalozzi-Medaille and the FDJ (Frei Deutsche Jugend)but I can not say for sure. I will do some more checking with some friends and get back to you. Regards, Gordon

To add to the interest, at least I hope so, here is a poster on the Reichsbahn from the same period. Celebrating May Day. The carnations worn in the poster were given out as a symbol of May Day by the government.

Paul, Reichsbahn soviet style boards are rare but do turn up on ebay.de from time to time. Bidding on these baords reminds me of a shark frenzy! Original uniforms with these boards rarely come up for sale and this is the only complete and matching set I have ever seen. Here is a picture of the top coat that completes the set. There were pants with the tunic. Regards, Gordon

Grant, The Pestalozzi-Medaille was given for good conduct and long service in education which would indicate teachers to me. One woudn't expect to award children a medal for being in scholl a long time!!!! Regards, Gordon

The only marking in the breeches are on the underside of the rear pocket. One stamp is an inspectors stamp and all that can be made out is the number 9 in the centre and the letters M E O at the bottom of the stamp. The other stamp is the standar marking for this period with two leters in the upper section a lower section divided into two with a legible date of 1952 in the right hand side of the rectangular marking.

The rear of the pants.

The next set of pants are the wool type breeches worn with the everyday service uniform. The interesting thing about hese pants is that they are virtually identical to those worn during WWII. The buttons are made of the same bakelite material. They have two slash front pockets, a watch pocket and one rear pocket on the right side. The watch pocket and the rear pocket are closed by a button and a tab. Regards, Gordon

Here is the markings in these trousers. A little blurry but hard to hold a digital camera still with one hand. The pants are dated 1953.

The rear of the padded trousers.

Gents, One of the hardest parts of a uniform for a collector to acquire are the pants to go with the tunic. Particularly ones with similar wear colour etc. While Charles concentrated on tunics this past show I concentrated on trousers. The first pair up are the heavy winter padded trousers. These pants are very thick and bound to keep you warm but would certainly restrict your movements once you added the jacket. They have two front slash pockets and a watch pocket on the right side. There are no rear pockets. The pants are tapered to fit inside the boots and there is a slit at the bottom to help get the pants on. This slit is not buttoned but is tied closed by two straps, which wrap around the leg, that are sewn into the outside leg seam. If anyone has a tunic to go with these panst please pm me. Regards, Gordon

Charles, Nice tunic. I should have paid more attention to it on Saturday! Cheers, Gordon

Grant, The Pestalozzi-Medaille fur true Dienste was introduced on 15.11.1956. They came in Gold for 40 years service (30 years after 1971) Silver for 30 years service (20 years after 1966) and Bronze for 10 years service. Apparently they were 32mm in diametre except from 1966-1973 when they measured 32.4mm. Sources vary on the type of material used to make the medals but they were probably made from nickle until some time in 1986 when they started to make them from iron until the end of the DDR in 1990. Ref: Bartells "DDR-Spezialkatalog 1049-1990" and "Deutsche Ordern und Ehrenzeichen" Regards, Gordon