orden_master

Perfect observation Rick indeed there exists two variants of the flag and the way how the star is made. The first one with the star drawn by hand and very variable on different items and afterwards with a metalic border as divider between the flag and the star. I will try to find some pics. regards Milan

Hello the order of the Yugoslav flag was used over the years more and more as a "diplomatic corps" order. Most of the diplomats having served in Belgrade have received this order. The same for diplomatic visits. So the IV and V class of the order was given mainly to "lower" ranked personel. And having heard many stories of people having served in this period many of those low level ordes have found their direct way to the garbage pile as they were not given this high attention as with higher class orders. This fact reflects also in the very hard time to find complete sets (box/medal/certificate) of the lowest two classes of this order, same for the rather high prices for the 4th and 5th class. regards Milan

Dear Christian you are right with your idea. Indeed this type of jewel-case complete set of orders in miniature (the 3rd type with the flat back and poor enamel work) was given to high ranked officers (mainly generals) upon their retirement. Some of the cases had the JNA emblem on the front cover and a type of diploma of gratitude inside. I still have kept my miniature collection and of course my box. I will have to make a couple of pictures on tuesday in my office. Best regards Milan

As you can see with the order of the Yugoslav star there exist different variations, the one with the star in(mostly) synthetic ruby stone and the older examples with the star made in red enamel. Only a couple of sets have been manufactured with real genuine stones ! regards Milan

Here are all the 3 stars, from the GRAND Yugoslav star (Velika Jugoslovenska zvezda), thr first class (Jugoslovenska zvezda na lenti) and of the second class (Jugoslovenska zvezda na ogrlici) all from my old collection I have sold "en bloc" a couple of years ago. Best regards Milan

Hi this site is Bulgaria operated and it's highly linked to Victors vicmart site, under this link http://www.bulgarianorders.com regards Milan

The difference in quality of workmanship is obvious, the newer ones are very crude and look almost "unfinished". But it's obvious that the old dies have been used. Regarding the orders of freedom I can say that their quality was perfect and that they were perfectly made not by the governmental institution but from a private jewelery manufactury in Belgrade. One of the older items was borrowed and used as a template. regards Milan

Hello yes indeed a very nice piece of history if authentic, as Christian already stated if the order is coresponding the issue date it should be a "massive gold" piece. The russian versions have different boxes (I will look for my box if I have a picture of it). Yugoslav made gold items are of extreme rarety and until today I have seen and touched only ONE! Knowing the seller already I would consider that the booklet and the order are not coresponding, thus that the order is either a hollow version or (best case scenario) a IKOM Yugoslav production "full body" order. Best regards Milan

Thanks Ed, I forgott to mention the languaga database, as it is of VERY big issua as most of the books dealing with those exotic countrys are written in their own language. regards Milan

Hi Eric just one idea would be to reassamble a present and known (available?) bibliography on those countrys you have stated. As I've got an almost complete Yugoslavia collection I also still have a very complete bookshelf dealing with this country, but I was collecting also books an all sides I could get so I have books on Bulgaria, Romania and little stuff on Albania. That would be maybe step 1.1 for the "whip-swinger" to collect a database of sources. I would be in the project altough my restricted time resources Best regards Milan

Herre is a more detailed portion of the text, the document has in the lower right corner the inscription "No. 7". The document was given in 1880 to the Metropolit of the Serbian orthodox church of this time. regards Milan [attachmentid=62188]

Dear friends and collectors could anyone help me in researching the occasion/event reason for this attribution of the belgian diploma. Was there a medal asociated to this document? Is there any archive to look this up. Thanks for any contributions. Best regards Milan [attachmentid=62186]

Thies has alway such quality catalogues that they always apear very short before the auction date, so we all have to go and check daily his website !

Dear Christian as you already signed some common lines regarding the esthetics of old Russian orders and Serbian Monarchy orders the same conclusions you can draw on price range. The prices are going exorbitantly high the past 2-3 years. This is due to an steadily increasing number of collectors and a (of course) limited pool of items available. Many of thos new-"collectors" are lacking the interst in history and background informations the only thing they look at is if the item they purchased is RARE and EXPENSVE to show to their friends and to put them somewhere in a drawer. This is a pity because exactly those persons have driven the prices to higher grounds. Sorry for this mostly emotional output but I had to let it out. Lets get back to the main question: The highes ranked ordes (regarding prices) are any items from the Obrenovic dynasty period, thus 1856 to 1903 Order of Milosh the great Breast star 16000-18000 EURNeck badge 5000-8000Breast badge 2000-3000Order of the White Eagle (first type) GC set 5000-9000GO set 3000-6000Commander 2000-3000Officer 500-800Knight 400-700Order of the St. Sava (first type) GC set 2500-3500GO set 1250-2800Commander 600-1000Officer 300-600Knight 200-400As Christian already stated correctly the most part of Serbian Royal orders before 1914 have been manufactured in Vienna. The main producers have been Rothe, Scheid, Fischmeister, Resch and a couple of others with unknown marks but the items still having the Vienna town punch marks and the Austrian silver punch marks. So the price variation result from most of the Sebian orders not being manufactured by only one maker but very often by a couple of them. So there are R and RRR variations of those orders. Just in case if you cross anywhere a St. Sava with AF punch marks please give me a triple PM !!! Regards Milan

Sorry I forgot completely to tell you what it is. First pic is a Order of the White Eagle GC set, first type from the 1882-1900 period with the monogram of King Milan I on the reverse of the badge. This order was made by Rothe in Vienna. Second pic is a GC set of the order of the Karageorge star, first type with grained breast star thus from 1903 to 1914 period. This order was made by G.A. Scheid in Vienna. regards Milan

Or like that : [attachmentid=60390]

Yes I "fly" more on stuff like this : [attachmentid=60389]

I have to go to bed, have a hard day tomorrow. The rest of the pictures will follow tomorrow evening. cheers Milan

Here the breast stars of the order of the Yugoslav star big star 1st class 2nd class [attachmentid=60361]

Here they are, the war flag for start [attachmentid=60352] [attachmentid=60353] [attachmentid=60354]

I was opting for a "BIG" piece from the re 1900 period and I had a good offer for the whole lot. I've got a complete collection except the order of freedom.

1st class: [attachmentid=60317] [attachmentid=60318] [attachmentid=60319] [attachmentid=60320]

2nd class : [attachmentid=60314] [attachmentid=60315] [attachmentid=60316]

3rd class : [attachmentid=60312] [attachmentid=60313]

4th class : [attachmentid=60310] [attachmentid=60311]