Hugh

I can't claim to be a hardened combat veteran, but I have been shot at more than once, and I can assure you, it was unforgettable. I also have experience as a drone controller, having been in the US Navy's Drone Anti-Submarine Helicopter (DASH) program in the early '60's. Our mission was to drop torpedoes on enemy submarines, so, not exactly the same as today, but the most exciting / terrifying thing about our ops was wondering whether you were going to lose the control link as you were bringing the helo in for a landing on a tiny pitching deck. It happened to me more than once, with spectacular results. Metal, plywood and odd bits flying everywhere. Made me very grateful for the armored cab from which we worked. Still, not the same as real bullets.

Here's a little more insight on the issue from today's NY Times. They make some interesting, valid points, but it's still hard for me to believe it's like getting shot at. Hugh Drone Pilots Are Found to Get Stress Disorders Much as Those in Combat Do U.S. Air Force/Master Sgt. Steve Horton Capt. Richard Koll, left, and Airman First Class Mike Eulo monitored a drone aircraft after launching it in Iraq. By JAMES DAO In the first study of its kind, researchers with the Defense Department have found that pilots of drone aircraft experience mental health problems like depression, anxiety and post-traumatic stress at the same rate as pilots of manned aircraft who are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan. The study affirms a growing body of research finding health hazards even for those piloting machines from bases far from actual combat zones. “Though it might be thousands of miles from the battlefield, this work still involves tough stressors and has tough consequences for those crews,” said Peter W. Singer, a scholar at the Brookings Institution who has written extensively about drones. He was not involved in the new research. That study, by the Armed Forces Health Surveillance Center, which analyzes health trends among military personnel, did not try to explain the sources of mental health problems among drone pilots. But Air Force officials and independent experts have suggested several potential causes, among them witnessing combat violence on live video feeds, working in isolation or under inflexible shift hours, juggling the simultaneous demands of home life with combat operations and dealing with intense stress because of crew shortages. “Remotely piloted aircraft pilots may stare at the same piece of ground for days,” said Jean Lin Otto, an epidemiologist who was a co-author of the study. “They witness the carnage. Manned aircraft pilots don’t do that. They get out of there as soon as possible.” Dr. Otto said she had begun the study expecting that drone pilots would actually have a higher rate of mental health problems because of the unique pressures of their job. Since 2008, the number of pilots of remotely piloted aircraft — the Air Force’s preferred term for drones — has grown fourfold, to nearly 1,300. The Air Force is now training more pilots for its drones than for its fighter jets and bombers combined. And by 2015, it expects to have more drone pilots than bomber pilots, although fighter pilots will remain a larger group. Those figures do not include drones operated by the C.I.A. in counterterrorism operations over Pakistan, Yemen and other countries. The Pentagon has begun taking steps to keep pace with the rapid expansion of drone operations. It recently created a new medal to honor troops involved in both drone warfare and cyberwarfare. And the Air Force has expanded access to chaplains and therapists for drone operators, said Col. William M. Tart, who commanded remotely piloted aircraft crews at Creech Air Force Base in Nevada. The Air Force has also conducted research into the health issues of drone crew members. In a 2011 survey of nearly 840 drone operators, it found that 46 percent of Reaper and Predator pilots, and 48 percent of Global Hawk sensor operators, reported “high operational stress.” Those crews cited long hours and frequent shift changes as major causes. That study found the stress among drone operators to be much higher than that reported by Air Force members in logistics or support jobs. But it did not compare the stress levels of the drone operators with those of traditional pilots. The new study looked at the electronic health records of 709 drone pilots and 5,256 manned aircraft pilots between October 2003 and December 2011. Those records included information about clinical diagnoses by medical professionals and not just self-reported symptoms. After analyzing diagnosis and treatment records, the researchers initially found that the drone pilots had higher incidence rates for 12 conditions, including anxiety disorder, depressive disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, substance abuse and suicidal ideation. But after the data were adjusted for age, number of deployments, time in service and history of previous mental health problems, the rates were similar, said Dr. Otto, who was scheduled to present her findings in Arizona on Saturday at a conference of the American College of Preventive Medicine. The study also found that the incidence rates of mental heath problems among drone pilots spiked in 2009. Dr. Otto speculated that the increase might have been the result of intense pressure on pilots during the Iraq surge in the preceding years. The study found that pilots of both manned and unmanned aircraft had lower rates of mental health problems than other Air Force personnel. But Dr. Otto conceded that her study might underestimate problems among both manned and unmanned aircraft pilots, who may feel pressure not to report mental health symptoms to doctors out of fears that they will be grounded. She said she planned to conduct two follow-up studies: one that tries to compensate for possible underreporting of mental health problems by pilots and another that analyzes mental health issues among sensor operators, who control drone cameras while sitting next to the pilots. “The increasing use of remotely piloted aircraft for war fighting as well as humanitarian relief should prompt increased surveillance,” she said.

Anyone been following this? Courtesy of Washington Post / AP. Hugh British Spitfire hunter vows to keep digging in Myanmar despite loss of main sponsor By Associated Press, Updated: Tuesday, February 19, 6:04 AM YANGON, Myanmar — A British aviation enthusiast searching for scores of World War II-era Spitfire fighter planes he believes are buried in Myanmar said Tuesday he will continue his quest even though his main sponsor has backed out. David Cundall told reporters that he is confident of enough funding to continue his search despite the withdrawal of the Belarusian video gaming company Wargaming.net. The company said last Friday it believes the planes don’t really exist and descriptions of their burial by Allied forces as the war drew to a close nearly 70 years ago are a myth. Cundall contends that as many as 140 Spitfires may have been buried in near-pristine condition in Myanmar. No traces of any were found in digging that began in December, but Cundall said he hopes to have good news in two weeks when the searchers finish surveying. He said they are waiting for a specialized company from Europe to use ground-penetrating radar that will show the shape and depth of buried objects. Cundall said Wargaming “couldn’t wait that long.” “I’m still confident to find Spitfires,” he said. “I believe in eyewitnesses.” The Spitfire helped Britain beat back waves of German bombers during the war that ended in 1945 and remains the most famous British combat aircraft. About 20,000 Spitfires were built, although the dawn of the jet age quickly made the propeller-driven, single-seat planes obsolete. Wargaming said in a statement that its team “now believes, based on clear documentary evidence, as well as the evidence from the fieldwork, that no Spitfires were delivered in crates and buried” in Myanmar between 1945 and 1946. It said archival records indicated that the British unit handling shipments at the time received only 37 aircraft, but “none of the crates contained Spitfires and most appear to have been re-exported.” Moreover, “appalling weather” and shortages of heavy equipment and manpower would have made it “almost impossible” to bury the massive crates, the company said. Cundall accused Wargaming of getting involved in the search “for publicity.” “They are not Spitfire enthusiasts at all. ... After a few days, Wargaming said they wanted to go and leave. I’m here to find Spitfires and we have ample funding without Wargaming,” Cundall said. “There is no shortage of money.” Cundall said funding for the search came from his own resources as well as other financiers. When he first announced the excavation plans last year, he said his quest to find the planes involved 12 trips to Myanmar and an expenditure of more than 130,000 pounds ($210,000). The search kindled some excitement in early January when an excavation team in northern Myanmar said it found a wooden crate with unknown contents full of muddy water. It was eventually found to contain wood paneling and fence posts. “We never said it was a Spitfire, we just said it was an object of interest,” declared Cundall. “This is the nature of the business. We are looking for something like a needle in the haystack.”

It's good to welcome another naval weapons officer to the forum. There aren't that many of us here. I was a Navy gunner before I was seduced by the Intelligence branch.

The case of the Purple Heart is a little different than the Bronze Star. While I haven't reviewed the award criteria, I believe it's awarded for any wound (or death) sustained in a combat situation which is treated by medical personnel. There is no requirement for active engagement with the enemy. I remember a case of a man who hit his head while running into a bunker to avoid a rocket attack in Viet Nam. He got the PH. I'm sure there are many other cases of less-than-heroic awards. This is not to denigrate the bravery of those who won it in brave circumstances; just a recognition that bravery is not part of the decision process. All that being said, I could understand a rationale which places this new medal ahead of the less-than-heroic Purple Hearts. BUT there is no way to make such a distinction, so it conflicts with the truly heroic (but otherwise unrecognized) combat wound PHs. It's a bit of a dilemma. Perhaps the answer is to remove the Purple Heart from the medals list and make it a different wearable insignia, like the British wound stripes. After all, the original Purple Heart was not a medal, but a cloth embroidered badge. That would take the precedence issue out of this conversation, at least with respect to the PH. With respect to the Bronze Star, I know some who won it in Viet Nam, complete with Combat Distinguishing Device ("V") who were there, did their duty and went home without any particularly distinguishing incident of individual bravery, including a number of REMFs. In some cases, it was used as an "end of tour" award. Some of the senior officers with WW II service were harrumphing at the time that the prestige of the award was being watered down. It's not unusual for the level of performance to win an award to vary over time. Look at the Medal of Honor and the Victoria Cross. Early awards of both were more generous than in later times. Time will tell if this medal deserves its place in the order of precedence. If it is awarded rarely for truly exceptional achievements under extraordinary circumstances, then perhaps it deserves to be ahead of those "end-of'tour" Bronze Stars. It seems like a stretch, but perhaps that's the rationale. However, that level of performance might be rewarded by the service Commendation or Achievement Medals, or even a Legion of Merit, depending on the circumstances. Probably didn't need to add to the fruit salad.

Benvenuto! This is a wonderful chunk of history which I have not seen on the forum before. Thank you for providing it. Perhaps you could also tell us a little about your icon. It suggests that you are / were a Lieutenant in the Italian Navy. Best, Hugh

Also takes precedence over the Purple Heart, awarded for combat wounds or death. Doesn't seem quite right. H

What a great story! Now that's a flag officer!

The creation of the medal is not surprising in these times of award inflation. What does surprise me is the precedence: ahead of the Bronze Star with "V" (Combat Distinguishing Device). Probably won't sit all that well with combat veterans.

Thanks for that. At a casual glance, I'd have guessed that it was a ceremonial dagger. I know the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine both used daggers / dirks, but what about the Wehrmacht?

OK, for the non-initiates - I've seen the velvet baton, but what's an interimstab? Got a picture?

As I've mentioned in an earlier post, I once met Admiral Halsey. I was a plebe at the Naval Academy, home for Christmas leave at a dance. I was wearing my full dress Naval Academy uniform (which has probably not changed over the past one hundred plus years) and this runty little grey haired gentleman stepped into my path and said, "I used to wear one of those once upon a time." I had no idea who he was, and was intent on pursuing a younger, more attractive target who was just disappearing out of sight. I made a cursory, minimally polite answer and took off after my primary target. Later, someone who had observed the encounter told me who the runty gentleman was, and I almost lost my teeth! I'd like to believe that the Admiral may have laughed and even approved of my priorities. I went to high school with a boy named Halsey Spruance, who I think was a grandson of both those admirals. I've never checked the genealogy to see if that was so, but we all believed it.

Sorry, Dug, maybe I haven't read carefully enough. Exactly what is the question? Hugh

Fascinating - thanks, Mervyn. Do you suppose that later they made spears in the shape of the Maxim gun?

A different version of the photo appears on the cover of Peter Hopkirk's Like Hidden Fire - The Plot to Bring Down the British Empire. The poses are very slightly different, and the gent in the fez has left to get a cuppa, but otherwise it is identical. Capt. Oskar Niedermayer with the slouch hat and the grumpy disposition has moved next to Raja Mahendra Pratap (center). It's a helluva book.

Thanks, Chris, should have known it. I have a copy of his "Rhymes of a Red Cross Man" from my father.

Hi, Chris, Can you give us the author / title of the poem, please? Best, Hugh

Thanks, Bernhard, I always "enjoy" your posts. A poignant reminder. Best, Hugh

Neither can I. Here's a pic of the medal. (with new ribbon)

In case you don't have it, the recipient of mine is Gordon Alone Rust, USAAF, who received the award for flying the Hump in WW II. 2156 - GMIC:hugh Best, Hugh

And a better look at the ribbon

Inside the case

Here's the insignia on the case. It says "Marina de guerra del Peru" (Peruvian Navy)

Here's the case.

The reverse. It's a very well made piece.