hunyadi

Ah! Yes - forgot that little detail about the M51 boards...was recalling the M49 style... As for the name in Hungarian it is the Szolg?lati ?rdem?rem (1953) These were the first style of the "Long Service Medals". Also - I was wondering if you could send me a scan of this photo - I do have space to put it in my book about the histroy and militaria of the HuPR? Send me a PM -

Peter - Wow! That is quite a nice photograph and not one that I had commonly encountered. The individual is wearing the M1951 uniform of the air defense unit. He is a captain. What is interesting is that the photo shows him wearing the Meritorious Service Medal of 1953. This is quite rare as in 1954 they redesigned the medal. Only 785 were ever awarded of which your relative was one. He is also wearing the badge of the Flood Defense Badge of 1954 for service to Hungary during the distructive flood from July 13th - 30th of 1954. So the photo was probably taken in 1954. I just wish I could have used this for my book! :jumping:

Glenn - as you may already know - there are some fair to midland militaria shops nearby.... :rolleyes:

Bazsi - What are the dimensions of the flaps on the wool tunic? Can you also take some photograps of the interior and some details of the shoulder boards and pocket flaps. Best!

Ok - now I have evny! That is a fantastic collection! Lets see more! Can you provide any details about the various types of belts. (why they have the various lions, letters, etc...) I have not seen much of these at all excpet what I see on Ebay of course.

I would alos check the African nations. There was alot of "support" by the Hungarians (training, repair, etc... I have a funny story about an Mi8 @ the Solnok Musuem.... in that regard) durng the many regime changes in that portiaon of the world. Just another place to take a stab.

Just some others to consider would be Korean or Chinese?

Kedves Sandor! Kosonom hogy segit engem! As I had said, the tunic came out of a Budapest theater company and has the anoying (?) little tag on the interior. When I aquired this and a very interesting "Flotilla" type tunic of the Rakosi period in tabor barna color (camp brown) I took them to Tamas at the museum. He imediatley pulled out this officers tunic of the infantry. He did not show me any enlisted, though I am sure there were some, so hence I scoured to find officer boards and tabs. When I talked with Tamas, he assured me that both officers and enlisted wore these. You can just barely see the piping along the edge of the green colored boards. So - now I am confused. as I would consider both you and Tamas as the more educated in these regions. I would need to know something definite as I am about to publish on these - if its all wrong I need to get it out of the book. As for a trade - PM me and we can discuss. udv! Charles

Sorry if we are only doing perido photos - If we are not I will pull them. But if its OK - here is another one of my favorites. M51 tunic of the pre 1956 revolution, which was modified per 1957 regulations, these tunics could be worn in this manner up to 1959. Though the boards cant be seen very well in this photo, they are for an Infantry Captain

Here is one of these that I have - as Sandor says they are very rare. This one came out of a Budapest Theatre, but they had modified it to resemble a Horthy era tunic. (WW2). This has been the best that I have been able to reconstruct it with the extra parts that I had. Probably not "textbook", but its an example.

Sandor - thanks for your input - the other tunics that were on the table were newer. As I stated before, I think he went out and got new uniforms, but already had this M57 in the closet and used it for parades only it seems. The issuance of the newer borads in 1970 - would make sense - esp as this had the 1970 parade badge - if you were going to be in the parade - one would need to "look" similar to the other ones in the parade. This information helps - thanks!

Bazi - For all the years I spent there - I never knew this... I will now have to dig all the bravery medals out and find the marks... When I presented this to the Hungarian Military Museum curator of medals he identified it as a post war strike. Now this sheds a little more light on it that it was a late war manufacture for sure. Many thanks!

Here is a shot of the interior - you can see that it is a white sleeve tunic. If you also look hard enough you can see the sewing for the shoulder boards. This tunic came from the flea market near Nepstadion (forgot the name = I called it the Thieves Market) this set probably came from a fresh "trash day" pick up - or more likely the pestering of a recent widow. For our Hungarian forum members who have had the pleasure of venturing down there you know that there are a few militaria dealers - but there are also a hoard of junk collectors who will sell anything and everything - this tunic along with the medal bars and several other tunics of the same Lt. Col were on the same table of one such seller. It was among dishes, dusty casette tapes and the like... it was not the type of seller who knew much or had the gumption to put something together like this, so I feel fairly confident that its a complete group. I believe the reason that there are the newer shoulder boards on this older tunic is probably the result of a promotion. He probably had this tunic and as it was set up for the medal bar used it only for parade purposes, so it probably spent most of its life in the closet. The other tunics I bought had the holes just above the upper pocket and he clearly wore the other ones with the ribbon bars (too bad they were not on the table on that day) during normal military functions. All of the tunics had the same shoulder boards so he probably had them all tailored to match. Just my take on the tunic. Welcome your responses.

Though we have seem to become "off topic" there is a wealth of information here - I would not change anything. But without further ado... here are the images of the tunic in details. First off is the collar. You can see where the tailor has left a small remnant of the green piping. You can also see where the collar was folded over slightly and resewn.

Well - I did just find the tunic and pull it out to get a photo of the fragment of piping... still interested or is the matter closed? I my opinion - if I were to write about this tunic - I would simply state "early M1957 tunics had a two piece waist while a one piece waist appeared around 1961". At the most - its a variant - not a model, but that is just my interpretation...

Bazsi = Can we see the reverse as well? I am always interested in the construction of the medals as there is a time line for them. Welcome to the forum!

I would have to dig it out of storage - but this one did at one point in its life have green piping along the collar and then it was removed and resewn - so it was originaly a pre 1965 tunic...

This is a French propoganda cross as per the Iron Times

Hello SasaYu - From the image it looks to be a gold class, but the looks of the metal can be decieving especially under the camera. As for a value - they were probably the most manufactured award of the HUPR and are very available in Hungary - when you get out of the borders - they do get more scarce and slightly more valuable. I think one sold on Ebay (USA) for about $5 not too long ago.

Absolutely amazing - I would also look in a Lexicon for his name - the bookstore across from the Junk Shop has many of them - I am sure that he would be in there and it may even list his awards. I wonder where the rest of the lot is - though it may be a widow or family member trying to make ends meet so the lot will appear slowly... :jumping:

Szia Janos! Thanks for posting your daggers - perhaps with my statements I am gun-shy as the maker marked ones I ever saw all had issues with them. I never felt comfortable purchasing a maker marked blade esp after other collectors warned me against them - they probably had the same mind set to avoid the maker marked items. One factor that I would like to point out is the maker marks. I am not questioning your belief or knowledge about this but making one reason why I avoided them with maker marks. - the maker marked balde you showed from Koz?k Antal - the makers stamp is "incomplete" and the serial numbers are crude. I always find it hard to accept that if my company would put a stamp or "advertisement" on a product - that it would be poor, or ugly in appearance. One sees this in 3rd Reich reproductions all the time - but very rarely in actual period items. In all the fakes by Ungarn and Horvath we see the same "good" quality - but not the type one would expect from the period of WW2. The Magyar people are a proud people and the items from WW2 are very well manufactured - even up to about the 1950's you see a quality in the work - but when you get to the "Kadar ido" and even today, the quality is forgotten. This is why I always avoid the poorly marked blades. Again - you have probably more experinece with these items than I do and you may be correct - I just want you to understnad my statements and reasons for them. - the etching done to your offciers blades is very unique and was done by hand and doen during the war - you can certainly see this in the quality. The modern etching is an acid type with the names done by a rotray engraver. Please post more - esp the screw type eagle head as I dont have an example of that to show. Udv!

Yes - documents, photos, and all...

Ed and Rick - as you noticed the ribbons are all out of whack and regulation on both of these. Of course this is what happened. Both of these tunics were direct from the veterans. The cavalry was "out of the closet" from the family who did not know or cared for it anymore and the YD was direct from the veteran himself. Sadly the veteran is in a nursing home with severe dimentia and the family would not know why he put a star on his WW2 victory ribbon.

Thanks Rick! :jumping:

Here is the post WW1 Cavalry tunic