Claudio

Dear forumites, With this thread I'd like to stimulate a discussion about the show in Stuttgart and encourage people to post what they have purchased there. As usual I found a lot of stuff that are sitting on dealers' tables since years with the same incredibly high prices. Sometimes though, I can find some nice things, although it is increasingly difficult to really discover the sacred Graal and make a "Schn?ppchen" (a real good deal). In Stuttgart, although the Waffenb?rse was cancelled due to that terrible and widely in the media reported "incident" in Germany (I doubt though that something could be reached with this action, since next day I was participating to a Waffenb?rse in Lucerne, Switzerland), all the most important dealers were there... Of course this to me it is not so interesting, because most of their stuff is on their on-line catalogues. It is however always a good occasion to see some friends, collectors and personally meet some dealers. Here my first bar... a "lipp'sche" Frackspange... untouched as it should be; not a great thing but nonetheless a very honest and perfectly mounted bar.

RAO3Sch reads Roter Adler Orden 3. Klasse mit Schleife see also Andrea's very informative website under the link http://www.medalnet.net/Rote_Adler_3.htm It was only to confirm that that officer really got the above-mentioned rarely awarded order (especially in a group like this, for an officer like Deutelmoser), which is quite extraordinary, I must say.

Ich h?tte mir denken k?nnen, dass es eine Godet-Spange war... So well put together and those tightly and perfectly folded ribbons... Great bar! Thanks for showing the back... I like backs... only of medal bars and, of course of women! ;-) Ciao, Claudio

Hi Chris, That's for sure Swiss... it was the Bataillion fusilier 16, of the 3rd Infantry Brigade, 2nd Divison. This unit was formed in the bilingual (French/German) Canton (state/region) of Fribourg/Friburg. The tschako is a typical Swiss one (Ordonnanz/Ordonnance 1898 see link http://www.rost-und-gruenspan.ch/ and http://www.rost-und-gruenspan.ch/downloads...tschako_01.pdf). The medal commemorates very likely the active service (Mobilmachung/Mobilitation) of that unit at the borders during WWI. Ciao, Claudio

Wow! That's what I call a great joint research effort... I am really speachless... Andreas: I guess you're quite an happy camper right now...

Excellent research and detective work!!! Such a great feeling to see how also small but very interesting medal bars can tell about someone's career and life... That is what collecting is about! Congrats!! Ciao, Claudio

I quite agree with Heiko... I don't like these ribbon bars with inter-changeable small aluminium plates... although the prongs on the back of such plates can easely break, the chance that someone would quite simply fabricate fantasy combinations is quite high. Therefore, also if this type of ribbon bars existed, I am not collecting these... it's a question of taste, I guess... I would only collect them if they come in a group with the medal or other ribbon bars. My 2 cents... Ciao, Claudio

Hi Sascha, Here's the Frackspange we were talking about... like Stogieman said it's Prussian bar, but what it makes this bar so interesting is the StHO. Textbook Godet style bar and ribbon bar mounting. I can't look at it... I am so furious that I missed for a couple of seconds. You must know I am quite a Godet's fetish... Ciao, Claudio

I found another Rothkrich... but I don't think he was the original owner of the bar.... this one was an U-Boat Officer... incredible this family! http://www.uboat.net/men/commanders/1034.html First Watch Officer Oberleutnant z. See Von Rothkirch in the Control Room while cruising submerged. Von Rothkirch later became the commander of U-717 making one patrol in the Baltic in Autum 1944.

Something interesting found on the net http://www.vonrothkirch.de/index.php?rubrik_ID=177 Freiherrliche und gr?fliche Linien: 1839 wurde Friedrich aus dem Hause Rothkirch in den Freiherrnstand erhoben. Seit 1861 f?hren die Angeh?rigen des Hauses Panthenau den Namen Grafen v. Rothkirch und Trach, die des Hauses B?rsdorf den Namen Grafen v. Rothkirch, Freiherrn v. Trach. Die Angeh?rigen der H?user Massel, Rothkirch und Schottgau f?hren den vollst?ndigen Namen v. Rothkirch und Panthen. http://www.vonrothkirch.de/index.php?rubrik_ID=179 Aus dem 20. Jahrhundert seien genannt Friedrich-Wilhelm (1884-1953), Generalleutnant und Ritterkreuztr?ger, und Edwin (1888-1980), General der Kavallerie und nach dem Krieg Vorstandsmitglied des deutschen Olympischen Komitees f?r Reiterei. I don't think either that the bar belonged to one of the above-mentioned Generals: Friedrich-Wilhelm Name: Friedrich-Wilhelm von**Rothkirch und Panthen Born: 16.2.1884 at Darmstadt Died: 24.12.1953 at Trier First Joined: 24.2.1902 Became Lt: Drag.Rgt.8 18.8.03 Prewar Service: Verabschiedet 31.8.22 Inf.Regt.49 12.10.37 Promotions: Obstlt 15.10.35 Oberst 1.3.37 Gen. Maj. 1.8.39 Gen.Lt. 1.8.41 Command Inf.Regt.49 1.9.39 13 Inf.Div. (Mot) 1.11.39.-26.7.41 148.Res.Div 1.4.43.-1.10.43 AUSGESCHIEDEN 30.11.43 Awards Ritterkreuz http://www.das-ritterkreuz.de/index_search...hword=rothkirch or Edwin http://www.specialcamp11.fsnet.co.uk/Gener...und%20Trach.htm I also found a major... Major Graf Hans-Siegfried von Rothkirch und Trach (05.Feb.1945, Raum Alte Oder - Sch?ferbr?cke in sowjet.Kgf.), II.Abt. / Pz.Rgt.Brb. (I.Abt.) Maybe the one? He was a Major of the reserve... but I hardly believe that he is the one, since he's of the Trach branch (Graf/Count) of the Rothkirch. http://www.das-ritterkreuz.de/index_search...hword=rothkirch Well, the Rothkirchs seemed to have quite a military family tradition... 2 Ritterkreuztr?ger!!! I am sure that there must have been at least one officer named von Rothkirch with a HHOX during WWI... the search continues... Ciao, Claudio

Dear forumites, I was just caught in the big Friday's buying frenzy at Niemann's.... I guess it's very dangerous and very contagious. Actually Niemann didn't have for a long time really interesting bars, but last update was really interesting. Especially the Saxon Godet's Frackspange I missed by few seconds; I immediately bid on it in the first minute after 2 AM but somehow I didn't manage to get it!!!! argghh... There must be some people they are very "trigger happy"... I didn't even have the time to read the description that it was already gone... sometimes I am wondering how people can blindly buy such expensive collectibles without even checking. Also because of my frustration I didn't want to let escape me another bar (see below). I don't think however that this bar belonged to Oberstleutnant von Rothkirch und Panten of the Leibhusaren Regiment, since the combination doesn't really look like a typical Prussian senior officer of a guards' regiment. I checked also my 1913 Rangliste, but I didn't come up with this name (Maybe Res. Offz.?). I thought that maybe this bar could belong to somebody of the same family, who was a junior officer in WWI and later a senior officer in WWII; 3. Aufkl. 8 which could also indicate a cavalry-like unit (Aufkl?rungstruppen). I thank you already in advance for any interesting inputs you might give me! Ciao, Claudio

Hi Andreas! Wonderful piece... "not so common decoration"... what an understatement! Ciao, Claudio

@ Ulsterman: Yes, I know that.... but then in this case the IC should be on the far right of the bar, not left. Claudio

I like it very much, but its inclination as a civilian court mounted bar (Frackspange) disturbs me a bit... shouldn't it the other way... like the example here shown? Ciao, Claudio

@ Miguel: as you stated is a Saxon Frackspange (Civilian tuxedo medal bar), so it must be read from right to left... so it's correct; first the AO and then the FA-Medal and at last the EK (since is not a Saxon decoration), as per pre-1933 fashion... Ciao, Claudio

Hi Alexander, It should be a Bulgarian Order... Ciao, Claudio

Hi Werner! Great bar, that one of Vizeadmiral Max Loof (see Andreas' article on his very informative website http://www.medalnet.net/Colonial_Commemorative_Medal.htm ).... I can remember it very distinctly and vividly... Ex Siebentritt's collection and auctioneered by Kube a couple of years ago in a memorable one of a kind sale. I didn't know that it was a Godet bar, but from the neatly sewn ribbons and places decorations, it was almost immaginable. Congrats! Beautiful also the Waldeck's one.... Ciao, Claudio

nice backs... can we see the front, please?

another Bavarian medal bar, one of my favourites... ? Preussen, Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse, 1914 (OEK 1909) ? Bayern, MVK 2. Kl. mit Krone und Schwertern am Beamtenband (OEK 428), Hersteller Hemmerle, nur 1883 Tr?ger des MVK2 am Beamtenband ? Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer (OEK 3803), Hersteller G & S, J. Godet & Sohn, Berlin ? Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Dienstauszeichnung 1. Klasse f?r 25 Dienstjahre der LW (OEK 3857) ? Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Dienstauszeichnung 3. Klasse f?r 12 Dienstjahre der LW (OEK 3859) ? Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 13. M?rz 1938, Anschluss ?sterreichs (OEK 3516) ? Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1. Oktober 1938, Anschluss Sudetenland mit Spange ?Prager Burg? (OEK 3817 + 3818)

I admit; it's a crappy photo, but it's all what I got...

...some more details about his previous assignments and his family...

...this reformatting of the scans is a pain in the a..!!! The text becomes smaller and smaller...

Very interesting; his superior officers' assessment!

continuation (dates awards of the KVK)...

continuation...