Wild Card

Gentlemen; I recently posted the following ribbon bar; at which time I expressed doubt about its authenticity - I am really on a steep learning curve when it comes to ribbon and medal groups. Subsequently a forum member suggested that I post it separately for your opinions. Below is my analysis of the ribbons followed by pictures of the bar. Please let me know your thoughts and I thank you in advance. Wild Card 1. EK II 2. Prussian Crown Order. 3. Prussian 1870-71 combatants medal. 4. All I can imagine is a Russian St. Vladimir?? 5. Lippe-Detmold military medal; or considering #4, more likely a Russian St. Ann? 6. This looks like something to the Lippe-Detmold Leopold Order; but that was not founded until 1906, so... maybe a Danish Danneborg or Japanese Order of the Rising Sun? 7. W?rttemberg Friedrich Order, or considering the possibilities of #6, a Danish 1896 Danish Golden Anniversary Decoration. 8. Hessen Philip?s Order (grade?) w/swds. 9. Mecklenburg. Could be the Wendish Crown Order (grade?) or MVK. 10. Anhalt Order of Albert the Bear (grade?). 11. Saxon Duchies. Ernestine House Order (grade?) w/swds. 12. Schaumburg-Lippe MVM w/sabers. With the exception of #3, as near as I can tell, there are no campaign ribbons. Also, I do not make out any long service ribbons. Assuming #4, #5, and #6 to be foreign, and I realize that that is a long shot, but I can?t come up with anything better, why are they mounted ahead of decorations of other German states - especially if they are civil awards? With regard to #?s 8 through 11 where I have inserted (grade?), I am leaving open the option that we could be looking at either officer or lower grade awards - merit crosses, etc.

Hi Rick, A really interesting group you have there. I imagine that this guy took some real stories with him. That plaque rings a bell. I know that I have seen one somewhere, but can?t find it at the moment - all I?ve found so far are pictures of Budenny?s Mauser; but the plaques on that don?t match. The one that I?m thinking of was described as being to an ?Honor Weapon?. If I find it, I will let you know. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Schie?platzmeister, Well, you got me good on that one! I would have bet on a Lippe golden merit medal (1st striking) for sure. That Saxon cross certainly is a mystery. As far as I can tell, none of the merit crosses to the Ernestine Order had a crown; and although some of the Saxon Duchies? arts and science decorations approached the merit crosses to the Ernestine Order in appearance; again, I don?t think that there were any with crowns. The Swedish/Norwegian connection is interesting and may hold the answer. If you have a chance, run it by Tim Eriksen, he has some knowledge of that area. Please let us know if anything turns up on this. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Schie?platzmeister Many thanks for your post, that is a beautiful little group. Can you tell us what the medal in the middle is? Your post points up an interesting point in that it shows how exceedingly rare decorations do come along in miniature form. Thanks again for sharing. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Jim P., These are both veteran?s badges. #?s 3, 4, and 5 are definitely Brunswick. German sealers currently ask 30 -35 Euro for this decoration. I believe that 1 and 2 are of a more general nature; but no doubt other forum members can add more specifics. Best wishes, Wild Card

Yes and no. The asterisk does apply in this case, however it also applies in cases where legitimate pieces do exist but are just too rare to be valued. Such a cases would be the Brunswick Order of Henry the Lion knight 1st class with swords through the middle (#591), and the Brunswick Merit Decoration for Arts & Science 2nd class (#607), one of which I recently posted a couple of pictures @ http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5351. In the case of #591, there were 5 awards and there were 24 of #607. While we are on the subject, I think that it would be proper to address the cases where items are withdrawn (enf?llt). While this generally indicates that such awards do not exist, you have to exercise caution. For example, take item #1760, the Prussian Crown Order 3rd class, with swords and swords on ring. In the 1995/96 edition of the OEK, this item went from asterisk to withdrawn; and then, in the current edition it is now posted with a value of 4000 Euros. One was, indeed, sold for 4000 Euros plus a 20% commission at auction in December of ?04. In my opinion, the OEK is an indispensable guide for any Imperial German collector; but that?s what it is - a guide, a reference, not a bible! Prices are determined by buyers and sellers, not authors and publishers. Best wishes, Wild Card

True, but in his ?Magnum Opus? he allows, for example #1675 , was not awarded and that the one that he pictures is a museum copy.

Not to mention those millions of anonymous Third Reich pieces.

Hi David, Unfortunately, the only post 1854 copy of the Hannoverian House & State Handbook that I have is the 1865 edition. While I do not find your man listed in it, that does not necessarily mean that he was not a recipient - he could have died prior to this printing. Perhaps someone else out there has an edition closer to 1854? Best wishes, Wild Card

Andreas, Are you 100% sure that this fountain was located in the Red Square? I always thought that it was on the plaza/esplanade near the river. Best wishes, Wild Card

Oh...my...God! ?Ya know...., I don't know doodly about Russki Commie Gouvna, but I just get such a chuckle everytime the pretentious "Order of Glory" name hits the index page I just had to come and look. Nice stuff guys & gals!? - written by a fellow Forum member on 17 August 2005. ?It seems that some collectors turn their noses up at this Order, but I for one find it to be very attractive, especially when mounted on a bar. Given the escalating prices of a First Class, a Second/Third still seem to be a very nice value for a very nice award.? - written by the same member on 4 February 2006. Now I?m not going to mention any names; but talk about a slide down the slippery slope of the Soviet!!

and the same for 1891 - 1913. Note - the 1st class for 15 yrs. service is the same but gilded rather than silver.

To fill a couple of gaps. A 9 yr. (2nd class) Schnalle 1874 - 1892...

Hi David and thanks for the intro Schie?platzmeister. Well David, you really know how to get a guy?s attention. In thirty years of collecting (much of it devoted to Hannover), the most spectacular medal I have ever seen would have to be the 1847-1866 Hannoverian large medal for arts and science by Brehmer; and as such, if I had a Holy Grail, this would have to be it - it will never happen. Actually, I have had the good fortune to have seen two and a half examples of this medal. The first was on exhibit at the Bomann Museum in Celle and the others were in the archives at the museum in Hannover. Two and a half? Yes, in Hannover they have a piece of one which was roughly cut in half in a bombing raid during the war. All of these were of the 1847-1866 variety. As you can see from the data provided by Schie?platzmeister, in terms of size and form, all versions are quite similar. Actually I think, and Hessenthal indicates, that the only differences are with the bust of Ernst August on the obverse; The reverse, consisting of a simple ?F?R KUNST / UND / WISSENSCHAFT, remaining constant. All (of the gold examples) weighed 88 - 90 gr.(!) ; and all examples appear to have had a simple suspension ring run through a pinned ?se and the ribbon was 38 mm. dark or cornflower blue. Being founded in 1843, and as such qualifying as one of the earliest Imperial German arts and science medals, it apparently was not worn at the neck as were the large arts and science medals instituted later by so many other states. Thies/Hapke lists (not by name, but by year) 89 awards, of which ten were post 1866, or exile, awards. I hope that I have filled in a few gaps; and should you have any other questions, I will do my best to answer them. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Solomon, Welcome to the forum. I want to thank you for your truly excellent presentation on the Lippe-Detmold Order for Arts and Science. It is an outstanding example of the unique design and superior workmanship that one often finds with the arts and science awards which I addressed in a recent thread. Again, welcome and best wishes, Wild Card

Gentlemen, Although not awards, per se, I thought it appropriate to show the two custom buttonhole ribbon groups below. I believe that both were worn by Kaiser Wilhelm, at least the one on the right is so attributed; and I know that a full length picture of him wearing it exists somewhere, but unfortunately, I can not locate it. Incidentally, this illustration comes from J?rg Nimmergut?s B?nderkatalog. Yours truly, Wild Card

Thank you gentlemen. Stogieman, this is a Waldeck (1850 issue) Feldzugsmedaille dated 1814 / 1815 - OEK #2880/1. The confusion may come from the 1815 date which in the picture could be construed to be 1816. Hopefully the close-up below will clarify it. Best wishes, Wild Card

Two types of loose.

Gentlemen, I would like to present a very old friend from Waldeck who visited recently. Wild Card

Detail.

W?rttemberg large medal for Arts & Science, reverse.

W?rttemberg large medal for Arts & Science, obverse

Brunswick Arts & Science medal, 2nd class, 1st section

Gentlemen, In a recent thread on Waldeck decorations, I posted pictures of a Waldeck medal for arts and science. The unique design and quality of the workmanship of that piece has made me think that this subject deserves more attention. Arts and science decorations seem to be an overlooked and under appreciated area of Imperial German decorations. As mentioned before they tend to be unique in design and their quality often reflects the ultimate medalist?s and engraver?s work. While easily dismissed for having been awarded to artists and scientists, in fact they were awarded to a wide variety of personages. For example General Ferdinand Zeppelin was awarded the W?rttemberg large gold medal for arts and science and Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke, the elder, was awarded the Prussian Pour le Merite for Arts and Science. Below are two examples, each of which illustrate the uniqueness of these decorations. The first is an arts and science decoration 2nd class, 1st section, from Brunswick which shows one of the more unique designs. The second is a large gold medal from W?rttemberg which reflects the engraver?s art at it?s highest level. I hope that you enjoy this presentation and encourage the submission of additional material. Thank you, Wild Card

Hi Rick, The scan shown below is a note on the back of the photo (post #23). This photo is one of a series of four which along with some other photos seem to indicate that this is our man. Best wishes, Wild Card