Ferg1

Can anyone enlighten me on this single ribbon. The ribbon is about 1 1/4 time wider than a standard EK ribbon. The cross outline is in wire bullion and the whole thing is folded round with a double press stud fastener. Any ideas ,or is it just a plain EK bar but wider? Ferg1.

Hi Mike the badges German name is Deutscher Modell und Segelflugverband. I have seen this badge on Weitzes site and clearly it is a conversion of a WW1 observer badge to one of the above badges. I am sure it is a contemporary alteration as it is done quite crudely and fools no one as to what it was. Whatever the reason (maybe the guy could not afford to buy an official badge so altered his WW1 flyers badge!) it is an interesting item. I attach a picture of an official one ,silver grade ,there was a gols grade too.Ferg1.

Well Mr Vinland, you have failed to notice that I commented on this badge as soon as you posted the pictures and stated that the badge was a 'Spokeless wheel ' type of which there are hundreds doing the rounds . ( I counted seven at present on various sites). If you care to read my thread properly you will understand my concerns about the badge. People on this site are not self opinionated or making statements that are plucked out of the air ,I for one have studied this avenue of collecting for many years and find your statements insulting and at best naive. I suspect that you have bought the badge yourself rather than belonging to a friend so you are defending your purchase. Well my opinion stands that it is dubious in origin ,if nothing else from the quantity of these types around. Ferg1.

I went last year and picked up a few goodies. It was a large and interesting show, but just like everywhere else festooned with fakes at genuine prices ! Beware, Ferg1.

Hi,thanks for posting the pictures of this badge. I have seen one of these cut out / PLM mark before with a prussian crown and Juncker mark. I am dubious about this badge in as much as the usual gripe I bang on about, that is the ' spokeless wheel ' on one wheel of the undercarriage of the aircraft. I have written this so many times that everyone is probably getting sick to death of it but anyway.... Everytime,or almost everytime one encounters a Bavarian pilot badge for sale/auction ,whatever ,it is one of these 'spokeless wheel ' types. I have seen hundreds (well lots and lots) of them over the years and very few types with spokes in both wheels. This second type I show a picture of earlier in this thread. These are hard to find and expensive .i.e. real period badges. I guess ,at best there is a nucleus of the spokeless badges which are real 20's or 30's re-issue pieces but i feel the majority of them are formed copies or out and out fakes. After having my twopence worth let me say that the cutting out of the aircraft detail in this shown badge looks laser cut, certainly does not look hand cut and chased. Just my opinions,nothing personel !! Ferg1.

Hi , looking forward to seeing this Barvarian badge ! Here are a couple of period examples in silver. Ferg1.

Here is something I pulled off ebay a week ago. Badge was described as a repro and as a consequence no one bid on it ,except me that is. It cost me the grand amount of 57pence ( less than a dollar) . When i received it I was suprised to see that it was IMO a 57er example. Badge is solid buntmetal ,bronze or some such , silvered and retains most of its frosting and rodium 'sparkles' . Some wear to highpoints but overall good. Opinions anyone? Ferg1.

Nice badges ,as always Stan ! Ferg1.

This has to be the rarest aviation badge ever. Up for just $50,000 it was given to the 'Baron' as a one off award ! Seriously !! Made me laugh anyway.Ferg1

Hi Guys, I was sent the pictures by Vince but I cannot open them for some reason, maybe someone else can try.Ferg1

Here is an obscure badge ,I did not know whether to post it on the 57er section or here but I thought as it was pertaining to WW1 it belonged here. Somewhat shiney finish and execution a little crude (typical of the period) but I like it. Can't have been much demand for this badge 40 + years after the event ! Ferg1. Sorry about the pics Vince !

No worries Vince, it's interesting stuff !! Ferg1.

Thanks guys. Vince, we would love to see your badge! Ferg1.

Here's one that has just arrived on my doorstep. Nice late-war tombak issue piece from Juncker outlet. Never had a pin or catch from outset just 8 tiny sew on holes around edge of badge. Hard to find variant. Ferg1.

Certainly the badge looks like a good one, all the right features. Interesting that the badge is marked Karl Pollath and the case Carl Poellath. Ferg1.

Thanks Steve, as I said,I think alot of people must have been put off by the ' newness ' look of it. A few years ago I did some archiving work on German aviation badges for the Imperial War museum in London and they had Imperial German pilot badges still in their paper issue bags they looked like they were made yesterday! (they weren't ,of course) but it is suprising and deceptive sometimes when coming face to face with a ' minter ' . Ferg1.

Hi Vince, good Bavarian badges are thin on the ground at any time ,Weitze has an observer which is ' right ' . No. 94650 on his site.Missing the cross on top of crown but plenty are like that,broken off or removed after the abdication but it is genuine IMO.Otherwise very little around. Don't go for the pilot badges that have a spokeless undercarriage wheel (plenty around) they are dubious. Ferg1.

This is the latest bird to grace my collection. Minty clean air-gunner. Bought from a German dealer who had it on his site for a while and I can see why, it just looks too new and the die pattern is the same as the Juncker crown marked air-gunners isn't it ? Well actually no, it isn't. Very simular and the 'crowner ' was probably copied from this style. Check out the trailing wing feathers on the back edge of the wing ,10 in number (Juncker crown marked pieces have 9) also the crown ribbon and leaf arrangement are subtly different. I have seen 3 of this type in my years of collecting ,this one ,one for sale a while back and one in the newest Niemann reference book with plated over reverse. The badge is obviously unissued and has all (or almost all) of its frosting and sparkly bits. Untouched and minty! Check out the pin catch arrangement,these are seen on army and marine wound badges from time to time. I think someone said maybe GWL ??? Any ideas? Ferg1.

Ferg1.

Hi Eric, here is my example ,seems to be the same type/maker as yours. This one is not from ebay ,I have had it several years. There are copies that are very good but the enameling and the pin quality lets them down. The detail on the originals is ' simple ' to use a polite term and as a result people who may not know what they are looking for in a good one shy away from them. They are in fact fairly scarce beasts and a nice looking badge too !! Ferg1.

Don't you just love it when you come across a dealer who doesn't what he's got !! Rare but the law of averages dictates that it has to happen once in a while. I happened upon this little cross all lonely in the back of a dealers display box at a medal fair last week. Best of all it had a price tag on it of ?22 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he clearly had no idea what it was. I have never got ?22 out of my pocket so quickly in my life !! It did cross my mind to haggle a little but that would be taking the p***. Anyway a nice issue Mecklenburg-Strelitz stekkreuz for distinction in war. I'm happy, Ferg1.

Hi Steve, looks like a nice badge !! I think that the star is a mark of a supplier of pins and ancillary parts not the maker of the badge. Possibly Austrian . Ferg1.

Hi, badge was found in a house clearance ,lots of old stuff! This was in an old cigarette tin with an Eastern front medal and a war merit cross and dust !! Ferg1.

Hi Guys, I would welcome any opinions on this badge. I feel it is OK,your comments are welcome. on value too. Subject to that I shall put it on the ' For sale ' table if anyone is interested.

I did not keep the display board, it was not in good condition and really of no relevance or importance to the medals, it was old ,yes but nothing to do with the lippe crosses themselves. It was just a 12" x 16" approx . thick card with a faded blue velvet covering and edging ,quite crudely done but not recent. Obviously ,had it been German or of the period like a makers display board it would have remained untouched. Ferg1.