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Wessel Gordon

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Everything posted by Wessel Gordon

  1. I prefer shoulderboards. My SADF collection includes the shoulder boards of a full colonel, the US collection has the four stars of a full general that could be worn on either the lapels or shoulders and I'm working on buying a UK general's insignia which from what I've seen of British uniforms are displayed on the shoulders as well.
  2. Sandro, Thanks for the links. I know for a fact it's a copy...it was advertised as such and I bought it with the full knowledge it didn't hang around some guy's neck in 19-whatever. However if someone with an interest in military history sees it displayed in my house he might think ''Looks interesting...I wonder what the history behind the real medal is''. And as far as my research and Graham's post indicates the PLM was last rewarded in 1918...hence the fact I'm looking for the insignia of around that year. I know I am in the minority but I buy medals that catches my eye and although it has a massive impact on the financial value of my collection I do not mind owning copies of medals I really like such as the PLM. To me it's about the thrill of having a copy of a medal I always wanted to own and although it would be awesome to have genuine medals with their full history having the story behind a genuine medal isn't the deciding factor in owning it. In my SADF collection I have 10 full-sized medals all stamped with serial numbers and they were confirmed by a person more knowledgeable than me as genuine SADF issue and that fact alone is enough for me. The other factor that influence my decision to buy well-made copies is that they display better than a faded real medal and all my medals I eventually intend to display.
  3. I'm sure this isn't the right forum but the ''Classifieds'' section seems to have some issues so please excuse me if this post is in an inappropriate thread. I am looking for the insignia of a Prussian/German officer to accompany my Pour le Merite but can't seem to find it on any site. Does somebody perhaps know where I can find some even if it's replica items?
  4. Does anybody have any idea where I can find Prussian/German rank insignia dated around the end of WW1? I checked Ebay but most of those items are either WW2 or East/West Germany so it's obviously not going to work with a PLM of 1918.
  5. Graham, Thanks for the exhaustive list. I notice that among the recipients of the PLM with Oak Leaves after 22 September 1918 there are several lieutenants. Do you perhaps have an idea what would warrant what seems to be a fairly senior award to a junior officer like a lieutenant at a time when hostilities was calming down after World War 1? Was it belated recognition of actions involving the necessary merit/gallantry during the war?
  6. I have no knowledge of Prussian/German awards so all the medals and abbreviations used in this thread is a completely alien language to me but the restored bar look stunning. All I know of German awards is that Iron Crosses was awarded during the World Wars so I assume that's the medal referred to in this thread as a EK...am I correct? The only thing even remotely close to that in my collection is a copy of a Pour le Merite without Oak Leaves that I bought on impulse because I loved the shade of blue and the way the gray and black of the ribbon combined with the medal itself. I have also seen some copies on Ebay of the Blue Max of which the medal itself was any color under the sun but blue. I don't know how you German collectors feel but in my opinion that's just plain wrong and should be punishable. If you're going to the trouble of copying a medal at least try and make it resemble the original as close as possible. As an example of what I said above see the link below. https://www.google.com/search?q=pour+le+merite+images&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjX5N3stoDkAhVRMewKHRR0BjsQ4216BAgJECM&biw=800&bih=394#imgrc=R-7KsH4Z_jUMcM: I'm under the impression that the PLM (Blue Max) was from the design stage meant to be blue so if the other colors in the link above denotes various classes or ranks please feel free to correct me.
  7. Any idea on the manufacturing date/year of the medal? To my very untrained eye the medal seems to be in pristine condition for a medal that's, for argument's sake, 20-30 years old. But it's better if the more knowledgeable members voice their opinion...I might be completely wrong and in that case will gladly accept being corrected.
  8. In South Africa it very common to have either an English or Afrikaans surname and yet that' person's first language is the opposite of what the surname seems to indicate it should be. I've got a Scottish surname and sometimes i struggle with simple English and can't even understand the Scottish accent, lol.
  9. Thanks Peter. Just waiting for us to be settled in our new house (which might take a while since we have to sell the old one first) then my collection is going in a shadow box. I'm in contact with a local guy that cleans and mounts medals for a living to help me clean them properly but when it comes to mounting me and him have very conflicting ideas so I'm waiting till after the move to decide.
  10. Daniel, Thanks for the interesting information. I attach a copy of my PLM so as all those that joined in the discussion can see it's the ordinary PLM without Oak Leaves. If the lowest ranking officer that got the Oak Leaves version was a major I guess the highest appropriate insignia for the ordinary PLM would be a captain. That begs another question: the last PLM was awarded on 22 September 1918 should it be a Prussian captain or should it be German? During the German Revolution in November 1918 the Kaiser and all the other monarchs of territories consisting modern Germany abdicated and the Treaty of Versailles was signed by Germany.
  11. Laurentius, Good question. I would reckon that Manfred von Richthofen with his 80 confirmed aerial victories merited the Oak Leaves since he obviously won quite a few significant battles of his own and by shooting down so many aircraft prevented them from being used in a mass attack on the German lines.
  12. P.F. Thanks for the reply. What's the odds of it have been awarded to a colonel or higher? Since my other three insignia's far outranks a mere lieutenant it would look a bit odd to flank the Pour le Merite with the insignia of a lieutenant.
  13. I have a collection of South African, British and US medals as well as a single copy of a Pour le Merite. With the three other groupings I'm planning to include the insignia of a high ranking officer of the appropriate military. What would be an appropriate rank (and date of that rank) be to display with the Pour le Merite? For the SADF collection I have a full colonel's shoulder boards, for the British collection i am working on getting a full general's ''parade dress'' insignia and for the US collection I have the insignia of a four star general. Any suggestions?
  14. Trooper_D So in essence it served essentially the same purpose as a modern dog-tag to identify a dead soldier or a wounded soldier that might be unconscious or otherwise unable to communicate who he is and which unit he's from?
  15. I'm not an expert but my guess would be that it's some kind of dog-chain similar to those US soldiers use stating name, religion, bloodgroup etc.
  16. I just realized I have the order of precedence in the above picture in the wrong order. The Distinguished Service Order (third from right) should be placed before the MBE while the rest remains in the same order depicted.
  17. 922F I do know about the ban on noble titles as long as a citizen remains a US citizen but for instance Bill Gates is a Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire so if for some reason he decides to relinquish his US citizenship and accept UK citizenship he would be entitled to be called Sir Bill Gates. Strictly speaking ''Sir'' or ''Dame'' is a honorific and not a noble title which in the British system starts with Baron which would entitle the holder to use the title ''Lord Gates of Microsoft'' to use a very stupid example.
  18. 922F, Thanks. As mentioned in my original post I did have a glance at Wikipedia but since most articles seems to be written by enthusiasts and not experts on a topic there's sometimes are glaring oversights and omissions.
  19. muckaroon, Thanks for the reply. After a refreshing afternoon nap I suddenly remembered the old South African General Jan Smuts. Despite fighting against the British in the Second Boer War (1899-1902) at the end of his life in 1950 he was a British Field Marshall with the following medals: 1914-1915 Star, 1939-1945 Star, Africa Star, British War Medal, Defense Medal, France and Germany Star, Italy Star, Order of Merit, Order of the Companions of Honor and War Medal 1939-1945.He was also a member of the Privy Council. So it definitely happened that South African soldiers was appropriately awarded by foreign nations in times of war.
  20. Indeed.But I have a move to another town pending in future so I'm afraid my collection will be halted for awhile.
  21. As some of you might know I have medals of South Africa, Britain and the United States and the following question suddenly popped up in my mind: is there any UK/SA medals/decorations that are officially allowed to be worn on a US soldier's uniform? According to Wikipedia there isn't any but dear old Wikipedia's information isn't always infallible. I'm thinking in terms of say, a US senior officer, that worked closely with his British/South African counterparts on some sensitive mission/issue and the foreign country decide to reward the US soldier with an appropriate medal. Obviously the soldier in question's US medals will always take precedence in terms of display either in the form of the medals themselves or their appropriate ribbons as seems to be the rule in all countries militaries.
  22. Exactly what I thought except he did not notice that the design of the ''France and Germany Star'' in his collection differed substantially from all the others. All the other medals themselves in the WW2 series he had for sale had exactly the same obverse design so the difference immediately caught my eye. And to be honest: I don't feel bad for asking him to break up the set to sell the Silver Star separately since it clearly wasn't a France and Germany Star so in fact it wasn't a bona fide full WW2 set as claimed.
  23. I'm still new to collecting medals and i tend to buy medals that catches my eye. In the case of the Silver Star (and it's miniature I also have) in this picture it was part of a group by a seller as a WW2 group that the seller thought was the France and Germany Star. Luckily I spotted the difference and he broke up the set and sold the Silver Star set to me. Just shows what kind of thing can pop up if you do some research and have sharp eyes.
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