Lapa

Christian, How about this: . Messershmitt Me 262 and Lavochkin La-7 . Ivan Nikitovich KOZHEDUB Dmitri TITARENKO Kurt LANGE . 15 February 1945 (although it seems to be incorrectly described as being the 19 by the publisher) . Over the river Oder ("south of Frankfurt ... following the river Oder") The use of 3 20mm cannons Berezina UB-20 with a capacity of 135 rounds each. . Lavochkin Semen Alekseevich was born in Smolensk in a Jewish family . General Major of Aviation Engineering (1944) . Hero of Socialist Labor: 1943 and 1956 Stalin Prize: 1941, 1943, 1946 and 1948 and, as they say, received many orders and medals, among which 3 Orders of Lenin Marc

Ed, I am a bit puzzled by your answer and its general tone. If you do not welcome my comments for some reason, please let me know and I'll simply skip over your requests to do so. I have posted little on this forum, so what? Are we in a contest to see who pees the furthest? If you have a look on "the other forum" or on the Mondvor forum, you'll find quite a few of the items currently under my guardianship - in all cases, I use the same nickname, that should make life easier for anyone to find me. However, I don't understand why credibility implies extensive ownership (maybe some sort of an American criterion); if we go this route, I guess people such as Igor Pak are not credible I have been studying and collecting exclusively Soviet awards, documents and uniforms for over 15 years. Although the collecting days are coming to an end given the recent price increases, the studying keeps going on. From the start - being a mere mortal and conscious that my intellectual abilities have limits - I made the conscious decision to specialize in one field, and to become as knowledgeable in it as is possible (an approach an academic researcher would most likely understand). Despite my best efforts, not all of my items have turned out to be genuine, but all in all, I've had what I consider to be a rather high success to failure ratio. And I, for one, regularly reassess my items - even those acquired from trusted sources - in light of newly acquired knowledge (by the way, most of it coming from Russian-speaking sources these days; sorry for those who don't master the language, but as I read before somewhere on this forum, lack of knowledge is no excuse). Anyhow, end of the Now back at the original matter at hand: TO ME, the white stains are suspicious, and could indicate bleaching of all/some of the original entries. There seems also to be a difference in the existing rust, which could be due to artificial aging. How can I tell: handled too many doctored documents in 15+ years. What has rocket science to do with anything here? It happens that there was a specific type of document issued to KGB members. It is extremely rare, I have never handled one although I've been looking for one actively for many years. First below is a very bad quality picture of the real thing. The MVD also issued its own specific, serial-numbered document, which is scarce to rare. The army issued both soft-covered (most common type) and hard-covered, serial-numbered documents - blue, green and brown covers, which are scarce (2nd and 3rd pictures below). Definitely not rocket science, simply knowledge. So my question remains: why would your guy, who had a long career in the NKVD then the KGB, receive a regular army version and not the one specific to his branch of service? Feel free to dismiss it if it bothers you. NKVD and KGB documents are popular. It is known that some a) stamps have been faked, b) original stamps have been "liberated" and by pure chance met with blank documents. IN MY EXPERIENCE, it is very unusual to find a series of varied documents, issued over a period of 20+ years, which all use the same stamp; I am not saying that it is totally impossible - when dealing with the Soviet Union, impossible seems to be a word to handle with extreme caution - just that it is suspicious. Once again, feel free to dismiss if bothering. Marc

Rick, It could be related to the fight against Ukrainian partisans. If I remember rightly, fighting went of for about 10 years after the end of the war. Marc

Ed, A few documents raise some questions (well, that is, for me at least): 1. Order book: traces of bleaching? 2. Document for badge for 25 years of victory: this is the wrong (standard army) type for someone serving/having served in the KGB. It should have a hard cover, be numbered and be signed by Andropov. 3. The same official stamp is being used over a period of 20+ years on a variety of documents; I find that to be at least quite unusual. Marc

Belaruski, It is a fantasy badge manufactured in the 1990's. Marc

USAirForce, Could you please show the front and back of your flag. Thanks! Marc

Christian, SN 274 corresponds to a suspension, no stickpin order. Yours, as you mentioned is of the latest type (SN 1508-3653). I do not understand the reference to the Victory Parade. This would not have an impact on whether the order can be researched or not. There were many participants, and collectors own researched orders and/or groups that could be researched. The erasing of the number is definitely not the work of the Mint. All erasing was carefully and professionally done. Here, some highly unqualified "tradesman" was at hand I'd love to have a good look at your order, so I'll second Bryan in his request for better pictures/scans of the front, back and edge, with nice close-ups on Kutuzov's head, the crenelated wall and the mintmark. Marc

Miguel, I think that it is a genuine one. Marc

JC, Try doing the same thing from the reverse side, you'll see right away that things do not match (wheat sheaves, pole, etc). Regarding the H&S, this is standard attachment for Soviet orders; You'll find pretty much the same thing on the OPW or ORBL. And I do not believe that they were manufactured in 23k, but in 14k, which is much sturdier. That being said, it is indeed always possible that it got caught in something, but you'd have to be close to a brainless hare to simply tug hard on it to free it. Marc

JC, I see some small differences in different areas: . shape of the spike . shape of the wheat sheaves . small details on the ox and horse heads . detail of the rivers As I mentioned before, the mintmark is crude, which is unusual to say the least for MD work. Of course, seeing the handwriting would also help assess the order. Marc

Miguel, I don't think that you have to apologize for anything. Collecting is a private matter, and a matter of private, personal choices. To some, it is hunting down the thinest sub-sub-sub-variety, to others, it is the history, to others yet, it will be god knows what. One is obviously free think that he'd do things differently if s/he owned a specific piece. I seem to detect a hint of animosity toward "clean order collectors", in this thread in particular, but in quite a few other areas of this forum too. I personally regret this fact since, IMHO, there is no right or wrong way of collecting, there are simply different and various ways to do so, each of them aimed at bringing a collector the specific type of enjoyment he is seeking. Marc

Miguel, It looks good to me; I tend to think that it is genuine. If you can, for confirmation, please post hi-res scans of the front (central area with round wreath, and cartouche and surroundings) and the back (mintmark, S/N and cartouche). Marc

Bryan, Definitely makes sense! Marc

Bryan, We may try to rationalize that by saying that it is a MMD production, the oval type with a small flame, of which approximately 27,000 were manufactured, and it is in perfect condition. But I remain, as you my friend, rather miffed by current prices Marc

USAirForce, I think that you have already heard pretty much everything there is to say about this order. Christian ran down a pretty extensive list of additional points of discrepency. Marc

Rick, It could be due to his height. Marc

USAirForce, I'm sorry to have to be the disagreeing one here. I have doubts that you did get the real thing, but one of the Baltic fakes instead. Nick has already outlined some of the main problems: handwriting not what it should be, shape of details, fake patina... Marc

Bob, I personally have serious reservations as to the order you show. Compare the mintmark with that of similar orders; it looks rather crude to me. Then there are many minute differences (beside the H&S) which make me doubt that the piece you show was manufactured at the same place as the other genuine ones. Marc

Ed, Kuznetsov was interim chairman of the Supreme Soviet for a very short period of time between Andropov and Gorbachev, if memory doesn't fail me. As such, Mother Hero documents with his signature are rare. Marc

Ed, And it is the rare Kuznetsov variation to boot Marc

Bryan, It is up to you to decide... The medals, of course, add a bit of value, but all in all, this will not be the deal of the century IMHO. Marc

Kristof, I saw that '4' in the upper corner, but I personally have a problem with it: the handwriting is completely different from everything else on the document, and this is an unusual style for Russian scripting. Marc

Nice one Bryan! And 'bargain' is a word heard far and between these days Marc

Bryan, By itself without pants or cap, somewhere around 100 euro. It is a service jacket, not a parade one... Marc

Congratulations, Jim! Well, guys, I told you that it was not a very difficult question We were indeed looking for the 'infamous' internal passport. Originally invented during the empire as a mean to control people, it was abolished right after the October 1917 revolution. For the next 15 years, Soviet citizen could enjoy the freedom not to be tracked in every aspect of their lives (well...). The 1931-32 famine drew people from the countryside to the cities in such continuously increasing numbers that the Soviet governement had to find a way to stop the exode. It was then remembered about the old and tried system of the internal passport; although a throwback to a past and despised era, it was considered to be the only effective system that could be effectively be organized in a short time to stop the migration. So, on December 27, 1932, the "Unified Passport System" was implemented. Your turn, Jim Marc