Les

British Empire and related medals aren't my major area of interest. I found this site on Museum security while looking for something very different. Last December (2007) several medals in a NZ museum disappeared. Press reports of the loss, and subsequent recovery of some, but not all of the medals have been posted at this site. Museum theft is, and has been a major problem. For those on the list with an interest in this subject, the site may be of additional interest in other matters. http://www.museum-security.org/wordpress/?s=medals Les

Miguel, There are several differences, but the most obvious ones are all part of the way the eagles appear. This particular copy/fake has tail feathers that are evenly spaced, and the spaces between the eagles' legs and tail feathers aren't open. (Some people have these spots cut open.) Other details about the shape of the eagle's heads, shape of the wings, the way the feet/talons look, feather patterns and so on are all different from the wartime originals. The cross itself tends to look like originals, but the differences are less obvious. In the case of this particular copy, it is now well known and has been flooding the market over the last ten years. The eagles are distinctive enough, along with other features that it's an easily spotted fake once you compare it to an original piece. Les

I see that, and the problem doesn't seem to be easily fixed. Here's the ebay numbers which can be cut and pasted to the search line, and that should bring the two iems up. The first item is item ebay number 200218466834 and the seller is starrfu. This auction is already over. The second is item number 230248946192 and the seller is joannem2816 and the auction is still current. This is the same one on the post referred to a few days ago. I didn't realize the thread was there...."my bad." Les

http://cgi.ebay.com/IMPERIAL-GERMAN-WWI-BL...1QQcmdZViewItem The guy paid about twice what an S&L copy typically goes for these days. The case is different from the ones the S&L's came in, and nothing at all like the original wartime cases. Maybe someone should invite him to a site where he can learn something and how to avoid getting boned. Then there's this seller, pushing another S&L copy but with oakleaves and a three band ribbon for the not so palty figure of US$36,500 ! http://cgi.ebay.com/UNIQUE-or-order-Pour-l...Q2em118Q2el1247 The story about the first owner (a Russian it would seem?) being arrested in 1954, and then being acquired by the "second" known owner is good for a chuckle or two. The attribution to a Russian Grand Duke in the 1877's is "cute" although the cross is miles away from being correct for the time period it is attribute to by the seller (and current owner). In the immortal words of the great Stogie (warm up the orchestra here)....."when will they ever learn, when will they ever learn...." Les

Paul, The Treaty of Versailles, signed during the summer of 1919 expressly forbid the post-war German armed forces from having -any- military aircraft. The fellow on the right of the photo with the aviation looking arm patch is wearing what looks like a Baltic cross. Both fellows are wearing two cockades on their caps, suggesting the photo is from the Freikorp era prior to the summer of 1919 when the terms of the treaty kicked in. Afterwards for a few years Allied "Commission" officers started roamed Germany looking for weapons, poison gas production centers and stockpiles, and so on expressly forbidden by the treaty. If the photo were from the post 1919 "Provisional Reichswehr" or "Weimar" era, the cap insignia would be limited to one cockade, then later a single cockade with a wreath. There would also be other uniform differences. With regards to photos, Imperial era Soldbuchs and Wehrpass documents were limited to descriptions and no photos. Some other documents did have them. The photo on the last document Chris posted is not typical. During the war, POW's sent to England were sometimes required to exchange their uniforms for clothing provided by the camps. Between the time men went off to war, and returned, some of them appeared to age considerably from what they went through (see G.A. Ebelshauers photos in "The Passage"of his before and afterwards photos). He retuned home from two years in a English POW camp, looking 30 years older than he was. He also came home wearing civilian clothing that he was given as part of his preparation for repatriation to Germany. After the war, there were more than a few families that had "surplus clothing" because of wartime casualty rates. Red cross and other donations would almost certainly provide new clothing (not necessarily a military uniform) to someone that wore out what he had on when captured, or was otherwise unwearable for other reasons. A POW subjected to search and interrogation following his capture could have his original documents taken from him for intell purposes. Prior to repatriation, a German POW would be given some form of identity documents. Whereas Germans might rely on a written description, International Red Cross, and Allied officers might want more...such as a photo. Les

The badge looks good, although whether it was originally made as a gold one and not redone is hard to tell. Far too many black ones seem to get "upgraded" by being painted or plated. I have one in my collection that was part of an identified grouping where the badge matched a "Hindenburg" in color and tone. The badge was closer to a honey color than gold. I know the set is real, and as a result it's always made me wonder about the shiny gold ones that look far too new with no trace of surface wear to the finish. Les

That's definitely not a German Imperial or Third Reich era practice grenade. Les

Glenn, you're probably right about that being him. Komtur is there any more details to the photo? Les

Komtur, I've seen another cross that looks the same as this one, with open spaces between the feathers. It wasn't marked, and I don't know who the maker is/was. You are correct that it's not a known Wagner/Friedl?nder, or a Godet "type." I don't recognize the photos or the person in it, but will check my references later. In the photo, the ribbon under the collar looks like it's all the same color. There aren't any bands along the edges which makes me wonder. Whether the cross was photo-shopped on the picture...I can't say but won't say it did or did not happen. I've looked at other photos of people like Ritter von Epp, who wore a smaller ribbon (for a Prinzen?) under his collar and over his neck tie. I know of one PlM that was worn using a Prinzen ribbon during WWII by another PlM-tr?ger. Les

Glenn.... I'm amazed once again. Many thanks! Les

Rick....I'm floored. Usually enlisted men are really hard to locate. I never thought there was an almanach for musicians! Grazie!! Les

I've been able to determine that the man's name was "Gommelt" or something like that. He appears in many photos of the GdC on parade. Does anyone have more information on him other than his last name? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Les

Reverse. Another dealer at the show told me he has a silver "ray back" of the type Claudio posted. He said he'll consider selling it....but didn't say for how much. -If- I get it, I'll post it here. Les

Here's one similar to Dan's that I picked up this last weekend. The new one is actually silver, with a frosted surface that's worn on the top of the helmet, and completely intact on the reverse. This has the same nut fastener as Dan's. Front: Les

One?

Not only nice for pre-1916, but for the duration of the war also! Hollow gold and with oaks in addition to being "named" isn't something that'll be easy to upgrade...if ever. Did you get the award document with this also? Congratulieren! and another one for the oaks ! Les

Gold was, and in some countries still is, a monetary standard and symbol of wealth. It is also used in chemical and industrial applications for all sorts of purposes. Gold can act as a catalyst in some chemical reactions, is a superb electrical connection, etc. Once the war got under way, donating gold jewelry and other items was the patriotic thing to do. If you gave your wedding ring, you'd get an iron one in exchange. Presumably the gold them went to the war effort. (A) Okaaayyyy. Let's say your the Kaiser and proud of your gold Pour le Merite. Do you donate it and get a replacement one in silver-gilt, or bronze, and lead by example? Or do you wear it and flaunt it, while expecting others to do the same? (B) Instead of Willy ("There can be only ONE.") you and we are lower in the food chain. Most of us wouldn't have been wearing gold medals, but say you did. Do you donate it and get a replacement one in a lesser metal? Do you wear it and flaunt it, even though other lesser mortals are being patriotic and donating their gold items? © Or would some of you be like me, entitled to nothing, hoping that when I got shoveled under it wouldn't be in a mass grave and at least the cross would be wood? Then keep on doing what is expected. (Dienst-treue!) (D) Hang on to what little you have and not donate anything because the "leaders" don't appear to be practising what they preach. (E) Vote for the SPD, and consider your options. (F) 'em all. Les

The book is being sent out in the mail. Les

Here's a link to Wilhelm II's awards, and titles. In 1914, he was "awarded" the EKI. Didn't protocols for require that an EKI could only be awarded after (or concurrent with) the EKII being awarded? If that's the case, then shouldn't Willy have been awarded the EKII, and who authorized his award(s)? http://www.regiments.org/biography/royals/1859wilG.htm Les

Luftie, You're quite likely going to be right about what's in store for the dollar....but that's beyond the topic of this thread. The Euro might be doing well, but sooner or later, everything changes although it might take a decade, two, or even more. The bad thing about lop-sided currency exchange rates, is that strong currencies have been known to impact trade balances in a negative way. A few years ago, when the Euro appeared, Far too many German dealers started jacking up their prices while mumbling various things about economic factors and the exchange rate making price increases necessary. I suspect more than a few Americans will realize that Europeans buying here, will result in prices being jacked up on this end, or simply, Americans will sell items directly in Europe either themselves or through auctions, directly for Euros. Whether the Euros are exchanged for another currency, or banked into an account in Europe or elsewhere.... is another matter. Les

It was evident at the Max Show a week ago, when some (un-named) and very ill-behaved and lacking in social graces Europeans ignored "do not handle without permission" signs and acted like sharks at a feeding frenzy. I've been holding off on buying -and- selling high ticket items both in the US and elsewhere in the world at this time, for personal reasons. When I do sell certain items, I prefer the they go to "good homes" and usually not to dealers for re-sale. For entirely personal reasons, there are some people I won't buy from, or sell to. Exchange rates aren't written in stone, and currency rates go up and down. Not so many years ago (remember the early 1990's?) the Russians were selling almost everything with or without legal ownership rights, trying to get foreign hard currencies. Now...with the oil development projects in the Russian Federation, "Russians" are buying all sorts of things and helping to drive prices up. For those of us who've seen currency rates go up and down, the current dollar situation is a good one to set tight on and -not- sell. Sooner or later, the exchange rate will reverse itself, and items will move in the direction of those with the money and willing to pay the prices. Enjoy the situation while you can. The worm never rests, and it is always turning. Les

Dietrich Maerz was at the Max Show last weekend with advance copies of his new book. He was taking orders and will ship the books as soon as they arrive from the printers. My area of interest of Germania collecting is primarily Imperial. However, that doesn't mean that I don't try to learn a thing or two about T.R. items. The "R.K." debates on another forum for example, have been highly informative. Dietrich's new book is....a "wowser" and his mechanical engineering abilities have resulted in a strong analytical approach and solidly organized presentation of facts rather than impressions. The book is also well-written and the author is also well-spoken in person. The photos are superb. No bogus bullet-ridden crosses that others have insisted are real are part of this book! Up till now, I've resisted the urge to buy an R.K. but a quick look through the advance copy is seriously tempting me into first buying the book, and then taking the plunge and starting to look around for one to buy, and known fakes to avoid. Dietrich if you're reading this...congrats on a job well-done and luring an Imperial collector into tip toeing through the minefield of T.R. era collecting. Les

I'm solidly in agreement with Marshall on this idea. There appears to have been some arrangement (subcontracting between firms or even a parent-subsidiary firm relationship?) between Friedlaender and Wagner with regards to EK's. Friedlaender may have made EK's for Wagner, and there may have been a pro-qui-pro arrangement with regards to PlMs, and for all we know at this point, perhaps other medals. Don...you asked how both sides were enamelled. Not hard at all. The two sides are done seperately with two or more firings per side. One side is done, then the other has a base enamel applied that smelts at a lower temperature than the first application. Not all glass is the same, and depending on additives, firing/melting temperatures can be far enough apart that multi-colored and multi-phase construction can not only be done, but also eye-catching in some instances (for example the banding seen in one Bavarian award). Re: Mikes' comment about prices? Wait till the 100th of WWI and that's not far off. If Peter Jackson ever decides to do a WWI aviation movie in that time frame, hold on tight.... Les

"......enamel is much harder to polish than metal, so I think in the process of polishing off the enamel excess....." The post WWII S&L made copies aren't enamelled used melted glass beads the way the wartime presentation pieces were. The S&L's are actually done using a paste compound similar to the cloisonnee process, and resembles a hardened paint more than a glass or "smelted silicate." The "S&L's" appear to have been made with single application of "paste" per side. Old enamelling processes used during the WWI era are quite different from the way "enamelling" is done today. Often, the old method used more than one application of -true- enamelling applied in more than one layer. Les