Les

Tim, John.. That furry fez-like thing Turkish pilots and some Germans (Buddecke for example) wore, is called a "KALPAK." The NASM/Smithsonian at one time, had one in it's collection, although whether it's still there or not I can't say for certain. Karl Scheide, the former curator at NASM during the early/mid 1990's was caught stealing and selling items to a militaria dealer who in turn sold them on the collector market. Scheide was convicted, co-operated on helping to get many of the items returned, and the dealer when pressured by the FBI also co-operated. From what I've heard from one well-informed source (and I'm not providing more details or names) is that many items were recoevered, but not all. The FBI and Smithsonian both wanted to close the matter as quickly as possible without too much information going public. One of the items Schneide offered the dealer was a Kolpak, that a close friend of the dealer (and someone that I also know reasonably well) looked at, and was concerned about where it came from. His concerns were justified within a short time of seeing and handling the Kolpak. I was told the Kolpak was sold (in a hear beat), but not who bought it, or that it was ever returned. Anyone ever seeing or being offered a Kolpak for sale is advised to check the items history, and chain of ownership. John, do you know where the "Brampton" got it's Kolpak and how long it was there before being sold? Les

Joe, it could have been: (1) a case of spontaneous combustion after someone eating Mexican or Madras/Indian curries and then licking that particular ribbon bar...(wonder who that would be?) or... (2) a melt down of an astro-turf background after setting on a flat bed scanner while someone was discussing the in's/outs' of a a particular flight-badge on the phone...... ;-) Les

This reply is tangental to the thread, but there were quite a few junior grade infantry officers (Leutnants, Ober-leutnants, and Hauptmanns) that were awarded the PlM. There were roughly 11 company commanders (mostly Lts), and upwards of almost 40 Battalion commanders that received the award. Here's the list I have, which is long, but not necessariily complete. Some of the categories are blurred because in one case, a Leutnant was acting in the capacity of the regimental commander, and several Leutnants acted as Battalion commanders, adjutants, and so on. For those who are interested, the list follows: Company commanders (11): Haupt, Hauptmann; 24th (Brandenburg) I.R. (Douamont/Verdun) v. Brandis; Leutnant; 24th (Brandenburg) I.R. (Douamont/Verdun) Rackow; Leutnant; 158 I.R.(Fort Vaux/Verdun) Schneider, Leutnant; 63 I.R. (Caporetto) Schoerner, Leutnant; Bay. Leib. Regt. (Caporetto) Rommel, Leutnant; Wurtt. Mt. Batt. Trebing, Leutnant; 208 I.R. (1918 Spring offensive) Rothernburg, Leutnant; Regimenal C.O., 5th Garde I. R. (Lamotte/Noyon, 1918) Dernen, Leutnant; 110 I. R. (1918 offensives) Willweber, Leutnant; 2nd Garde I. R. (defensive battles/August 1918) Jűnger, Leutnant; 73 I. R. Batt. Commanders (37): v. Wolff, Hauptmann; 3rd Batt./ 109 R.I.R. (Verdun area, 1917) Wittekind, Hauptmann; / 463 I.R. (3rd Ypres) v. Gazen; Hauptmann 5th Jaeger Batt. (3rd Ypres, 1917)....Battl. Commander v. Grassendorf, Hauptmann; 11th Jaeger Batt. (Caporetto offensive)..Batt. Commander Scholtz, Hauptmann; 58 I.R. (Cambrai 1917) Stoffleth, Hauptmann; 18th Jaeger. Batt. (Italian front in 1917) Seiler, Hauptmann; 161 I.R. (La Bacquerie 1917) v. Both, Hauptmann; 90 I.R. (Avre-Grund, 1918) v. Arnim, Hauptmann; 117 I.R. (Spring offensives, 1918) Caspari, Hauptmann; 75 I. R. (Spring Offensives, 1918) Goesch, Hauptmann; 164 I.R. (Spring Offensives, 1918) v. Plehwe, Hauptmann; 2nd Garde Reserve (Spring Offensives, 1918) Reichenbach, Hauptmann; 74 I. R. (Spring Offensives, 1918) Schaumburg, Hauptmann; 64 I. R. (Spring Offensives, 1918) v. Wulffen, Hauptmann; 89 I. R. (Spring Offensives, 1918) Soldan, Hauptmann; 184 I. R. (Spring Offensives, 1918) Briskin, Hauptmann; 40th Fusiliers (Spring Offensives, 1918) Teichmann, Hauptmann; 48 I. R. (Spring Offensives, 1918) v. Saldern; Hauptmann; 78th I. R. (Spring Offensives, 1918) v. Osterreich, Hauptmann; 2nd Garde I. R. (Soissons/Reims 1918) v. Freyhold, Hauptmann; 12th (Grenadier) I. R. (Chemin des Dames 1918) Haenicke, Hauptmann; 150 I. R. (Chemin des Dames, 1918) Berka, Hauptmann; 66th Inf. Brigade (Chemin des Dames, 1918) v. Ravenstetin; Ober-Leutnant; 37 I. R. (Chatelet Woods, 1918) Trenk, Haupmann; 66 I. R. (Soissons/Reims, 1918) Plath, Hauptmann; 4th Garde Infantry (defensive actions, August 1918) v. Wenckstern; Hauptmann; 87th R.I. R. (Spring and Summer offensives, 1918) Kuehme, Hauptmann; 261 R. I. R. (various actions in 1918) Runge, Hauptmann; 2nd Naval Infantry Regt. (Spring and summer offensives, 1918) Gabcke, Hauptman; 158th I. R. (Soissons/Reims, 1918) v. Brandenstein, Hauptmann; 117th I. R. (Albert/Peronne, August 1918) Lueters, Hauptmann; 118 I. R. (defensive battles, August 1918) Behrendt, Hauptmann; 138 I. R. (Mount Groener, 1918) Busch, Haupmann; 56 I. R. (Maas, 1918) v. Bernuth, Hauptmann; 4th Garde Grenadier Rgt. (Albert/Peronne, August 1918) Seidel, Hauptmann; 2nd Garde Reserve Regt. (Septmber 1918) Wilck, Hauptmann; 2nd. Garde Grenadier Regt. (Bernafay/Montanban, 1918) Kircheim, Hauptmann; 10th Jaegers; (Somme/Oise, August 1918) Battery Commanders Hiernonymous, Leutnant; C.O. 14th Artillery Battery (Chemin des Dames, 1918) Lancelle, Hauptmann; 2nd Garde Field Artillery Regiment (Hardecourt, 1918) Zug/Stosstrupp commanders: v. der Linde, Leutnant; 5th Garde Infantry (Namur, 1914) Markmann Leutnant; 186 I.R. (somewhere in France, 1918) Regimental Adjutant: v. Stutterheim, Oberleutnant; Garde Grenadier Rgt. 1 (Marne, 1918) Battl. Adjutant: Ruemmelein, Leutnant; 87 R. I. R. (defensive actions, Sept/Oct. 1918) (end of list) Les

(wee small voice at the back of the class) Maybe it's that -long- association with furry household creatures.....instead of the cats thinking they are human, maybe someone is starting to think and act like a cat? javascript:emoticon('', 'smid_7')javascript:emoticon('', 'smid_25') smilie smilie Les (trying to hide his name and who posted this....)

Ok...I referred to the 1926 Ehrenranglisten for the Army. (Plug follows: for those of you who don't have an original, or one of Paul C's CDs with this on it, you don't know how much good stuff in in there...) Lettow-Vorbeck in 1914 as the regimental commader of the E.A. Schutztruppen was a Lt. Colonel. At that time, there was only -ONE- major in the regiment, with the last name KEPLER. Kepler was killed near Jassini on 19.1.1915, and his place was taken by Hauptmann Langenn-Steinkeller who held that post until he was killed near Mahenge on 1.4.17. Anyone care to state the obvious on what signature should be on the document if Kepler was killed on 19 January 1915? Les

The first document had the correct company (4th) at Kilimantani.....and the second one is getting cute by listing the third at Linde with the same "major" signing both documents. Check out this link for the German order of battle in East Africa at the commencement of hostilitiies: http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:YvLyU...inde+1914&hl=en For those who aren't interested in looking it up, or in case the link disappears (been known to happen), here's the list: Einteilung der Schutztruppen * Kommando der Schutztruppen: Berlin - Reichskolonialamt Deutsch-Ostafrika * Kommando Daressalam o 1. Kompagnie: Aruscha o 2. Kompagnie: Iringa und Unbena o 3. Kompagnie: Lindi o 4. Kompagnie: Kilimatinde und Ssingidda o 5. Kompagnie: Massoko o 6. Kompagnie: Udjidiji und Kassulo o 7. Kompagnie: Bukoba, Ussuwi und Kifumbiro o 8. Kompagnie: Tabora o 9. Kompagnie: Usumbura o 10. Kompagnie: Daressalam o 11. Kompagnie: Kissenji und Mruhengeri o 12. Kompagnie: Mahenge o 13. Kompagnie: Kondoa-Irangi o 14. Kompagnie: Muansa und Ikoma * Zus?tzlich in Daressalam: ein Rekrutendepot, eine Signalabt. und Intendatur. * St?rke: o 68 Offiziere o 42 ?rzte o 150 wei?e Beamte, Feuerwerker und Unteroffiziere o 2472 farbige Soldaten Meanwhile, all the -physical- particulars of the document aside, I'll see what I can come up with as regards a lof the officers, NCO's and any of the non-"farbige Soldaten" on the campaign. A unit the size of Lettow-Vorbecks didn't have that many officers as you can see by the list, and I doubt if there were more than two majors on the establishment during this period of the war. Les

and here's the two hookers.... Les

Here's my side-hook EK that's marked "800" with no other markings. The core and other attributes are identical to the type made by Godet however. This isn't the one Glenn is referring to.... First the front: Les

Matthias, Gibt's zwei Flieger mit die Reinecke-Namen: http://www.frontflieger.de/3-r-f.html Les

Mr. Ed, I downloaded and saved the fonts to a CD a few years ago when I had trouble finding the sites after a computer crash. Sites also have a habit of getting new addresses, etc. However, try this: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-...an+script+fonts A google search brings up the good stuff, and as of the date this is being posted, the first site at the top of the list is a German one I originally used. Check out some of the others for more than straight textual fonts used in books, papers, etc. Almost all of the fonts are "ttf" and consequently can be sized, italicized, and umlauts in another font are carried over. At least one even overscores a curved line above letter "u"s, so they can be told apart from an "n", "m" or a combination of those letters with an "i" etc. Hope this helps, and let me know if you need more information, Les

Bob, there are a few places on-line that have Suetterlin-schrift fonts that can be downloaded free. What's neat about them is you can type something on your PC in normal script and then change the font style (and size), print the text out, and....if you have a light table, trace the script. That makes allows almost anayone to start on their way to a career of making fradulent documents. Handwriting alone should not be used as the criteria for good/bad. Ever look at the handwriting of elderly and semi-literate people, or those who have been out of school for quite some time and have blue collar jobs instead of white collar clerical types that require lots of practice writing? I suspect more than a few of us on the list here, may not have the best handwriting in the world either. Although clerks at one time might have been chosen for their handwriting skills, I've seen more than a few Soldbuchs (from both wars) that have entires that are bnadly written. So...look at the rest of a document (grammar, mispellings, correct stamp type, whether the unit that is associated with the document was in the place claimed, if the officer who signed it was actually in the unit, etc, etc) not to mention the paper, inks used to print and sign the documents and so on, and see what does or doesn't add up and weigh those factors more heavily than the handwritinglone. Les

I've always tended to ignore the so-called "1957" types and have lumped them with the so-called "collectors copies." Also, there are more than a few of us who consider any Imperial medals made or restruck after 1945, as not entirely "collectable." That being said, there appears to be more than one or two of Imperial medals that were re-struck in 1957 when the new "sano" TR medals without the swastika were redesigned and restruck. Some people think of the 1957's as collectable, some don't. I've never really paid much attention to Imperial medals made after WWI although I have some TR era EKI's in my collection. Anything made after 1945, I tend to think of as a reproduction, even if someone tells me it's a "1957" type Iron Cross, or whatever it happens to be. I've noticed that the major Iron Cross books (for example) don't really discuss the "1957" type Imperial awards. Consequently, what the 1957 "types" are all about, at times seems more than a little vague. Perhaps, with the consent of the list "gods" (the good one and bad one among others...), a thread on all of the 1957 "types" might be of interest to the list. The thread wouldn't have to be limited to only Iron Crosses, but some of the other less well-known or arguable copies such as the GMVK, medals from some of the other states, and so on. Discussing the "1957's" of all types might help some of us recognize them for what they are instead of lumping them in with post 1945 "fakes." How does the rest of the list (and moderators) feel about such a thread? Les

Two comments: (1) Wow....that's some "Schnurbart" that guy has! It would make even a cat envious. (2) Rick, your contention about "length of service" seems to be borne out by a quick refernce to Hamelman's book on "Of Red Eagles and Royal Crowns". Page 51, has a refernce to the Jubilee device worn with the Crown Order, and notes that the honor medal was bestowed to an individual who accomplished his 50th -service- year (as a Catholic school teacher). The rest of the statute (issued in 1833) goes on to refer to length or service, rather than how long the award was held. The next page continues and from the context of the decree refers to length of service, rather than years the award was held. Les

Without getting into the matter of specifics on whether a Jubilee number is real or not...and by the way, I agree with those who are saying these are turning up in larger quantities than there should be...let's remember that among the "royals" and upper nobility, were often given honorific military commissions at a young age into some of the presitiguous Garde units, and a medal or two to keep those adolsecent chests from looking bare. I'm not saying that this justifies Jubilee numbers in any amounts, only that given the requirement of having held the award for 50, 60, or 65 years probably requires getting an early start in addition to being able to have what it takes to live a long life into advanced old age. Les

Chris, there is an officer style pattern that was "borrowed" by officers who served with Ausrian troops in the east. For example, there are photos of Ludendorf and Hindenburg (and many other officers) wearing a modified version of the m15/16 "Bluse" with upper chest pockets....something the enlisted model didn't have. The standard m15/16 for officers and enlisted alike, didn't have the chest pockets although officers did have the option of having them as part of the uniform. In answer to your question, yes it is a common pattern that appears during the latter part of the war, and is also one that could be ordered by an officer who liked that particular style. Les

Bob, I don't see any of the trademark "Stogieturf" green background, so it's probably not in his hands, and is on a site elsewhere. Les

Chris, Interesting grouping! At first glance, I thought the guy was in a Prussian unit, and the "RIR 8" designation lead me to think that until I saw the Bavarian stamp at the bottom of one of the docs. No Bavarian decorations to the guy? Les

One and only huh? I remember thinking the same thing when I got my first tunic, and then went on to buy a couple of dozen more..... There's no slippery slope, it's a cliff. Welcome to the club.... <grin> As long as you're wanting to do the tunic up right, don't forget about a belt. If you go the route of making the tunic a full dress one, then the belt is supposed to be brocade....and there's the option of a sash, and let's not forget about a standard line officer's "Helme" with spike and/or Trichter. A dress sword (Stechdeggen) is an option. This particular look is much better look instead of standard Achselstueck (boards), leather belt, and Schirmutze.... Les

Dan, I've boot legged an accompaning photos from the previous one at the other site. Note the upper left arm, and what appears to be a badly "trimmed" upper diagonal edge? That's the flaw Andreas was talking about. He said this flaw is found on Wagner made pieces. Les

Tom, Joe... Thanks! I have one that's almost a dead ringer for yours, Tom. I was comparing mine to some of my wartime ones, a while back and noticed it was larger than the typical WWI crosses, and then started wondering when the AWS "pillowbacks" were made. Les

Paul, O'Connors first volume of the aviation awards series discusses this (pages 167-169). In easily remembered numbers, less than 2000 were awarded between the time it was initiated in 1864, to the last award in 1918. Slightly over 1700 were awarded during WWI, with over 95% of the awards made during the last year of the war. O'Connor provides an intersting comparison between this award (presented to enlisted men only), and the PlM (presented to officers only). During WWI, roughly 12 and a half million enlisted men were in the German army, which he says results in a ratio of one awarded GVK per 7113 enlisted/fighting men. If you then consider the award of 687 PlMs (excluding non-Germans, oak-leaf awards) among 325776 officers in the German army, he states that one GVK is "worth" FIFTEEN PlMs. Les

...and the fake posted by Andreas... Les

Dan, The angle of the photo makes comparing your GVK to others difficult. Andreas S-I in a thread on another forum, pointed out the presence of a die-flaw in the ones that Wagner made. I'm too lazy to dig my own of it's storage spot and photograph it at the moment, so I'll "borrow" the photo of the real one posted on that other place, and in a follow up post here, a copy of the counterfeit one posted by Andreas.

Tom, Is your cross 42mm or 44 across? Les

Silk is very difficult to preserve. Battle flags are perhaps the most common item made from silk, found in military museum collections. See the following link for a discussion of some of the basic issues: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/xf-pres.html The brief article makes four sensible suggestions that anyone can follow: (1) keep the item(s) as dust free as possible, (2) keep it in a light-free environment...if possible, (3) keep it as flat as possible, and (4) maintain or control the temperature and humidity in a stabile enivornment. It's worth mentioning that archaeological finds in nothern China have contained "ancient" silks upwards of 1000-1500 years old that appear freshly or newly made with vibrant colors. The references do not mention how flexible the cloth is. What is known is that cold or freezing slows down almost all known chemical reactions, and this might be one avenue of approach to slowing down the aging process. Chemical treatments require that whatever method is used, that it can be reversed, if sometime in the future a better method is found or that the method used didn't work. Keep items in the dark? As the article in the link mentionds, there's not much fun in having something and not being able to see it..... Conservationists are struggling with the issues. Each silk item in a collection represents a unique set of problems: died silks with imbedded pigments (and whatever chemicals went into the pigments), lead based pigments and weighting agents, the relatively small size of samples (for example, a ribbon has only so much material and a limited amount of material for testing what method is best), and the problem is compounded when there are several ribbons on a medal bar, each piece of silk that has it's own special chemical considerations. Look at it along the lines of a housewife having to shop for a family of five, with each family member having their own special dietary needs and allergies and not necessarily many things they can all eat. So, what can we, as collelctors do? Perhaps, as little as possible and following the four recommendations made in the link, and here. The less -we- do, the less the damage that we may be doing and perhaps the greater the chance of stabilizing the piece(s) sometime in the future. Les