Dave Danner

The crowns are slightly different, although you would have to look hard to tell. The dimensions and weights are slightly different as well, but again not by much. According to Nimmergut: Preußen: D1 - Kupfer vergoldet, 36,0 x 35,0 mm, 12,44 g D2 - Bronze rötlich, 30,0 mm, 14,13 g D3 - Argentan, 30,0 mm, 14,9 g Hessen: HD1 - Weißmetall vergoldet, 35,0 x 34,5 mm, 11,57 g HD2 - Bronze hell, 30,0 mm, 15,07 g HD3 - Argentan/Neusilber, 30,0 mm, 14,49 g These may be from examples which Nimmergut or others weighed and measured, so there could still be variations depending on the maker or even depending on wear. If someone did swap ribbons and medals over the last century, I doubt most anyone would have noticed.

The second medal, the 1864 Kriegsdenkmünze, goes with the third ribbon. I suppose it is possible the more brightly colored ribbon for the Düppeler Sturmkreuz did not survive the period from 1864 to 1897, and the owner couldn't afford a replacement or didn't really care, so the piece of dark ribbon in second place was thrown on there. Here is an example where the ribbons survive relatively well for their age:

Rick probably could have traced a Deckoffizier bar, but even then probably only if there were foreign or other German state awards. Here, we cannot say for certain if it is an officer's or an NCO's bar, or if it is Army or Navy. We cannot even say for certain if it is active or reserve, since many officers of the Beurlaubtenstand received the Centenary Medal while active for reserve Übungen in March 1897, and many civil servants received the China and Southwest Africa medals in steel. Indeed, although it is more likely given the award numbers, I cannot say for certain if the first ribbon is the EK2. It could be a Militärehrenzeichen to an NCO or petty officer, and he could have been retired or otherwise away from the front in World War I, thus never getting an EK2.

There is no way to be certain. Prussian-only bars are hard to narrow down.

Note that he had three head wounds, though the third did not require hospitalization. One Gewehr-Geschoß and two Artillerie-Geschosse. Only three months to recover after being shot in the head in 1914, and since it was 1914 presumably while wearing a Pickelhaube. Fairly lucky. The second wound was on 21.3.16 in the Battle of Verdun. It says "Albaucourt", but I do not know of a village by that name, so it is probably Abaucourt. There is a large German cemetery just east of Abaucourt.

The EK2 document is signed by Maximilian v. Zwehl (1863-1918), killed in action as commander of the 8. Infanterie-Brigade. The signature on the EK1 document looks like "Fuchs". Wegner's Stellenbesetzung does not have a complete list of IR 167 commanders, but if it is Fuchs, it is probably Adolf Fuchs from FR 36 (Oberst on 22.3.18). Metzler was wounded in late 1918 with 11./RIR 83, and RIR 83's Ersatz-Bataillon had already been disbanded, so that probably explains why IR 167 issued the EK1 document. This was his second wound. He had been severely wounded in April 1915 as a Musketier, also in 11./RIR 83. His hometown of Wörrstadt is in Rheinhessen, so there's a chance he also had the Hessen Tapferkeitsmedaille. Twice wounded, once severely, and several years in the field or in a Lazarett. I'd say he probably earned his EKs.

Turkish Order of Medjidie 2nd Class

I have one possibility for the ribbon bar: August v. Geyso (1.3.1861-24.2.1935); in 1914 an Oberst and Kdr. Gren.Regt. Nr. 10. Ended the war as a Generalleutnant. From Wegman, we have the following commands: • 5.3.13-7.11.14 Kdr. GR 10 • 4.4.15 Fhr. 21.IB • 6.6.17-8.10.17 Kdr. 50.RIB • 8.10.17-14.12.17 Kdr. 28.RD • 20.4.18 Kdr. stellv.78.IB In the 1914 rank list, he has: RAO4, KO3, DA, HEK2b, OV3a, HSH2b, JZ3, ÖEK3, TM2. The HEK2b, HSH2b, JZ3 and TM2 are all neck orders, so that leaves the RAO4, KO3, DA, OV3a, ÖEK3 and the Centenary (not listed in rank lists) for his ribbon bar. He certainly received the Iron Cross. His only other known wartime awards are swords to his HSH2b and the Austro-Hungarian Military Merit Cross 2nd Class with War Decoration, which was also a neck order. So the ribbon bar matches, unless he received some other wartime awards we do not know about. It is odd that someone with that many commands did not receive a Crown Order 2nd Class with Swords, but maybe he wasn't a very good commander. He apparently was not with the 28.RD long enough to get a Baden award. So he is that odd general who did not get his Red Eagle and/or Crown Orders bumped up to the neck.

Your guy could have retired before the war, in 1913 for example, and been recalled.

The ribbon bar does not match. Neukirchen gen. v. Nyvenheim had both the Red Eagle and the Crown Order around the neck, not on the ribbon bar. As Rick L used to note, one of the big clues for general's ribbon bars was the absence of certain ribbons because they had been "bumped up" to neck or sash awards. Also, Neukirchen gen. v. Nyvenheim had the 1897 Erinnerungsmedaille an den Einzug des Grafregenten Ernst from Lippe-Detmold. Your ribbon bar is more likely an Oberstleutnant or Major with the RAO4 and KO3.

Friedrich Wilhelm. Promoted to Leutnant der Reserve in IR 45 on 24.10.1915. As GreyC notes above, he was born in Rastatt, but he was not a Badener. His father was a Sergeant in IR 25, a Prussian regiment garrisoned in Rastatt at the time.

It doesn't really look like it, but the first letter is an "F". He was a Gefreiter in Saxon JB 13, whose chief was Heinrich XXVII Fürst Reuß, when he got the award. So it is "Fürstlich Reußische Verdienst-Medaille mit Schwertern" Regards

3.GUR is possible, given its Waldeck connection. Officers of the regiment received at least a dozen Austro-Hungarian Military Merit Crosses, so there were likely also a number of enlisted awards of the Bravery Medal. No way to say for certain. By 1918 a Waldeck native could have ended up in any number of units in Finland which had no Waldeck connection. Indeed, since it was a Guard unit that could recruit anywhere, a Waldecker could just as easily have ended up in 1.GUR and gone to Finland with that regiment. IR 83 officers did receive a number of Austrian awards, but there's no direct Finland connection.

The third ribbon appears to be for the 1905 Saxe-Coburg Hochzeits-Erinnerungsmedaille, which would fit with the Ernestine House Order.

The first letter is an "a", so "aus Gefangenschaft zurück."

It seems to be a widespread practice. All the Anhalt rolls I have are like this, as are the Baden Zähringen Lion Verzeichnis, the Schaumburg-Lippe Kreuz für Treue Dienste Verzeichnis, the Bavarian Kriegsranglisten on Ancestry, the Schwarzburg rolls, etc. Maybe it was a way to distinguish surnames from other uses, when surnames were often words. So, for example, to distinguish Harry Töpfer from a Töpfer named Harry.

That seems like a good possibility. Or maybe a Polizei-Dienstauszeichnung, the kind where the ribbon also had a swastika?

Neither is Sütterlin. That script was only introduced in the Prussian school system during the war, so adults at the time would not have learned it. It is just two different versions of Kurrentschrift. I have no idea why, but it seems to have been the practice for last names in official sources, as shown in the examples Chris posted above. Below are some examples from the Anhalt Friedrichkreuz rolls. Note that it is the entire last name, not just the first letter, which is in a different script. Note the two different versions of the letter "C" for Hptm.d.L. Carl Clausert: And another example of "G" as with Gustav Gebert, this one for Feldwebel Gustav Geier: Here is "H", for Hermann Hübenthal: And a couple of "K"s: And an amusing one, Friedrich Friedrich:

With the Red Eagle and the Albrecht-Orden Knight 1st Class, but with a Knight 2nd Class with Swords of the Friedrich-Orden, it seems that his civilian rank was higher than his military rank. Maybe an außer Dienst Reserve or Landwehr officer, so he had worked his way up the civil service ranks, but was still a Leutnant or Oberleutnant when the war began.

An older thread, but here is some additional information to add to Rick's research: • The unidentified award between the Liakat Medal and the Red Crescent Medal is the Russian Order of St. Stanislaus, awarded on 10 July 1914. Some other award dates: • 19.05.09 Lifesaving Medal (Rettungsmedaille am Bande) • 14.09.14 Iron Cross 2nd Class • 12.12.15 Iron Cross 1st Class • 07.04.17 Ducal Saxe-Ernestine House Order, Knight 1st Class with Swords • 28.06.17 Hamburg Hanseatic Cross • 24.12.17 Turkish War Medal (Iron Crescent) • 11.05.18 Wound Badge in Black • 20.05.18 Austro-Hungarian Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration • 14.06.18 Lippe-Detmold War Merit Cross These award dates were in the receipt for his Lippe-Detmold War Merit Cross, which he sent to Detmold on 27 June 1918, so all his other awards are from after that date. Best regards (and RIP Rick)

I don't know if there is a way to confirm it. Sometimes, getting it down to a handful of names is as close as you can get. I know that Lotz received the Hessian Bravery Medal, because it was in his award recommendation for the Schwarzburg Honor Cross, which I reviewed in the archives in Rudolstadt. I also know that Lotz was in the Hessian and later Schwarzburg/Thuringian higher education service since before World War I, and was still alive in the late 1930s, so he would have the Honor Cross for Combatants and probably qualified for the Treuedienst-Ehrenzeichen. I know of no way to confirm either the Olympia-Ehrenzeichen or the Hungarian War Commemorative Medal. Lotz is not the in 1942 Dienstaltersliste of the Education Ministry, so he could have been retired or dead before then. Weidmann is in the 1942 Dienstaltersliste, which lists his EK2, Schwarzburg Honor Cross, Hessian Bravery Medal and Honor Cross for Combatants. The Treuedienst-Ehrenzeichen is not listed in this Dienstaltersliste, but his seniority dates from 1913, so he had the requisite 25 years of service. The Olympia-Ehrenzeichen is also not shown in the Dienstaltersliste, as it apparently was not considered a decoration. I know of a few other recipients of both the Schwarzburg and Hessen awards who can be eliminated for other reasons. Some had other known awards. Others had civilian jobs outside the civil service. Others died before 1936. However, as I mentioned above, there may be others we don't know about yet. There are several recipients of the Schwarzburg Honor Cross for whom I don't even have a first name, much less any idea whether they also had a Hessen connection or a civil service job. I only just discovered the first name of one recipient of the 4th Class with Swords today. He was Louis Köhring, born in Sondershausen and a a Vizefeldwebel and Offizier-Stellvertreter in Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 168. IR 168 is from Hessen, so he probably also had the Hessen Bravery Medal. I don't know what he did in civilian life, or indeed if he was a civilian - he might have been an active NCO. The 4th Class probably would have silver swords on the ribbon, so odds are he is not a candidate anyway. I don't know about the third bar. The Saxon ribbons indicate a Vizefeldwebel/Feldwebel type. I am not sure what the blue ribbon is supposed to be. My first thought was the Württemberg Friedrich Orden, and possibly he was commissioned late in the war in IR 105, but the precedence is wrong. A German war decoration from any state should precede the Honor Cross for Combatants, while a foreign decoration should come after the Saxon Dienstauszeichnung. The Hungarian War Commemorative Medal should also come after the Saxon Dienstauszeichnung.

For the first one, I have two possibilities, although there may be others. There is no roll for Hessen wartime awards, so there may be some other Schwarzburg award recipients who have something from Hessen on that ribbon whom we have not yet identified. The two I do know had both the Schwarzburg Honor Cross 3rd Class with Swords and the Hessen Bravery Medal, were civil servants and were still alive in the 1930s/1940s to get the Treuedienst-Ehrenzeichen. I don't know about the Olympia-Ehrenzeichen - there is a list of the higher classes, but I don't think there is one for the many awards of the medal to people who provided some support to the 1936 Olympics. The two I have are: • Lotz, Wilhelm, Dr.phil., *22.12.1883 in Vilbel, Friedberg in Hessen; Lt.d.R., RIR 82; Oberlehrer in Sondershausen • Weidmann, Karl, Dr.phil., *16.10.1888 in Büdingen, Hessen; Lt.d.R., LFußABat 10; Oberlehrer in Sondershausen The second bar might be for an officer, but odds are it is for an NCO. You might be able to cross-check recipients of the Bavarian Gold or Silver Bravery Medals against Bavarian recipients of the Saxe-Meiningen Medal for Merit in War. The Bavarian military records on Ancestry could confirm the other awards.

Hi all, I have been doing some research and came across a small mystery. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts? This is from the website of the Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge: Georg Ruhstrat ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Kleinmachnow-Waldfriedhof. Endgrablage: Grab 158 • Nachname: Ruhstrat • Vorname: Georg • Dienstgrad: Volkssturmmann • Geburtsdatum: 25.03.1888 • Geburtsort: Oldenburg • Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 24.05.1945 • Todes-/Vermisstenort: nicht verzeichnet Here's the mystery. Georg Ernst Conrad Ruhstrat, born 25.3.1888 in Oldenburg, wasn't just some 57 year old guy called up to serve in the Volkssturm. Ruhstrat served as an officer in Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 58 in World War I and left the Reichswehr in 1926/27 as a Hauptmann. He was a recipient of the Prussian House Order of Hohenzollern with Swords and the Oldenburg House and Merit Order with Swords, among other decorations. He was still listed as a Hptm.a.D. in the 1943 Berlin Adreßbuch. Any thoughts as to why a well-decorated retired regular officer would end up as a mere Volkssturmmann? Maybe he ran afoul of the Nazis and lost his privileges as an officer?

Not sure if it would affect your plans, but there is usually a militaria show in Thiaucourt around the second weekend in July. While we were staying in Verdun, a few of us went to that show in 2013. We also stopped at the St. Mihiel American Cemetery just north of Thiaucourt, but did not make it to the German cemetery, which is just south of the village.

The combination seems fine. Frackspange for a reserve/Landwehr officer who was active in 1897 to get the Centenary Medal. Is it ID'd on the dealer website in question? I only have a partial list of officer recipients of the Lippe Kriegsverdienstkreuz, and the only close match I have died in 1930, so he wouldn't have the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer.