Kurt Donch

Only collecting German uniforms - and with absolutely no knowledge of British uniforms at all - I am asking for assistance with Royal Navy officers' sword belts. I have always been struck by how similar German Imperial navy officers' belt buckles are to the Royal Navy buckles (picture of a relatively early German buckle from my collection attached). Clearly, the German buckles were inspired by the British design. Now I am wondering when exactly sword belts were first introduced in the Royal Navy I have found a "Description of the Sword Belts to be in future worn by Commissioned Officers of the Royal Navy (...)", Admiralty, 2nd July, 1832, in "Nautical Magazine" 1832, p. 335: "gilt mountings with circular fronts, two inches diameter, laurel embossed edges, crown, anchor, and laurel in the centre". But apparently sword belts with round buckles with the anchor motive were worn as early as 1825 (or possibly even before that date). Could the experts on this forum provide additial sources or information to corroborate or refute (pre-1832 introductory oders/descriptions)? Thank you very much in advance for any assistance, which would be highly appreciated! Kurt

Beautyful. Thank you very much for showing!

It's called Tombak, an alloy with a higher copper content than brass. Quite popular for private purchase army buckles, especially Prussian and Württemberg. In my experience not often seen on Bavarian buckles.

Hi Fritz Buckle on the right obviously being worn upside down. Don't think the one on the left is a Rolldorn example. The belt hook is visible, whereas with the Rolldorn buckles, there is no hook.

Hi Chris The buckle on the left hand side is definitely a Bavarian army buckle as well. The motto In Treue Fest is visible, and this style of buckle was particular to the army. Bavarian police had a buckle with the crown within a thin striped ring. My thought is the buckle on the left was of the 1887 pattern (fits on a 5cm wide belt), whereas the buckle on the right is the 1895 pattern (fits on a 4.5 cm belt). The 1887 pattern buckle has a cut out at the fold-over sides to accommodate the large belt hook, and this seems to be visible here. The 1895 pattern buckles did not have this. That may appear at odds with the photograph's date, but possibly the influx of volunteers following the start of the war couldn't be completely equipped with up to date stuff and older pattern equipment still held in depots was issued. Just a spontaneous thought. Kind regards Kurt

Thank you for your quick answer. Much appreciated! Kurt

My apologies in advance for what must seem a daft question, but I don't collect medals and know absolutely nothing about them. Would someone tell me what the cross on the green and violet ribbon just behind the Iron Cross is? I have a belt buckle with the same monogram that I have been trying to identify for years. Thank you very much for your help. Kind regards Kurt

Hi, You'll find the marks are those of the manufacturer of the original DT buckle, not of the company that converted it to the WH pattern. Most seem to have been converted from Berg & Nolte DT buckles, so the HASAG buckle originally shown is quite special. The roundel of that one is absolutely identical to the roundels on B&N buckles. Best regards, Kurt

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Hello Robert, Thank you for posting these stunning photos. Actually, and there is confirmation from period sources for this, there was never any official FAD buckles. All the varied FAD-type design buckles out there were designed and sold by the manufacturers on their own initiative. One of the guys in your photographs is wearing the most common of these. Your photos clearly show, moreover, that FAD members would wear any old buckle they already had from another organisation they belonged to. Best regards, Kurt

Hi Komtur, The picture I had in mind must be in John R. Angolia's "For F?hrer and Fatherland" - military awards of the third reich, 1st edition ca. 1980. I don't have the book with me, but I remember a rather good protrait of Seldte printed in the book because the author treated the stars on the F?hrerschulterriemen as an award. Surely someone on this forum still has a copy of this book and can maybe post a scan? Best regards, Kurt

Gentlemen, Allow me to add some thoughts on the interesting subject of decorations awarded by former ruling families, chivalric associations and the like. Post-abdication awards seem to have been tolerated by the Weimar state and the Reichswehr. They also seem to have been tolerated in the early years of the TR, there obviously were a number of leading Nazis hungry for some big, flashy gongs. Legally, these were not of course "official" awards anymore, and the legal status of the orders etc. handed out was -and is - nothing more or less than a wearable token presented by a private citizen or a civil-law association. That they were highly prized by the recipients does not alter the legal situation. As has been pointed out in this thread, even today a number of formerly ruling houses, as well as some pretenders, and any number of "chivalric" organisations hand out orders that in part correspond to orders already extant at the time, but in part are completely new creations. Many of these "chivalric" assoctians are nothing more than money scams pandering to their members' vanity. For paying a - sometimes quite substantial amount - of money, you get the "right" to attend social gatherings and strut around dressed up in white or black tie and sporting chains, sashes, stars and crosses. Some old chivalric/caritative associations are officially recognized, e.g. in Germany the Johanniterorden, and their badges may be worn even with Bundeswehr uniforms. For the others, and the former dynastic orders, not being official or officially recognized awards, in Germany you can wear as many as you like with civilian clothing, as long as the badges etc. by their design may not be mistaken for any decoration awarded by the Federal Republic or the L?nder. BTW, another post-WWI awardee of the HOH Komthur was Franz Seldte, leader of the Stahlhelm and Reich minister in the Hitler government. Best regards, Kurt

While I have no name, I would suggest the scars on his left cheek are "Schmisse" (student duelling scars) and not wounds. If so, this would make him a Reserve officer and not a career military. Best regards, Kurt

Here's a close-up of my man: Sorry for the poor quality, but 70kb is rather restrictive. Hope you can make out the details. Kurt

Hello all, Hope this is the correct forum for my question. I'd very much like to know the identity of the officer on the right of the picture. The picture itself is well known and shows the Kaiser in conversation with the Chiefs of the General Staff of Italy and Austria at the 1913 Kaiserman?ver in Silesia. Off to the right of the group is Moltke, then Chief of the German general staff. But who is the guy to Moltke's right? By his age and proximity to the really big wigs, might he be some sort of (perhaps foreign) royalty? Perhaps I should declare my interest in the man: He is wearing a special version of the Feldbinde buckle with ornate gates that were not regulation. The Kaiser hinself had a special Feldbinde with this kind of buckle, but with three stripes instead of the regulation two (just visible in the photo). The mystery gent has the regulation two stripes, though. Pietsch states that the King of England wore a three-stripe sash with his Prussian uniform on the occasion of Princess Victoria-Luise's marriage in 1913. So, if my man can be identified, this might provide some explanation for the non-regulation Feldbinde/buckle, as there is certainly nothing in regulations. Many thanks for your help in advance. Best regards, Kurt