Ed_Haynes

Think you are right about cinematic use, David. And, by the way, while something like this ribbon is seen on the Jordanian medal, it is NOT the official one and its use cannot be documented.

And there is a third volume too. (The only one I have found on abe.com.)

The books: GALLOWAY, P., STANLEY, D. & MARTIN, S. Royal Service, Volume One. The Royal Victorian Order; The Royal Victorian Medal; The Royal Victorian Chain. 1996. xii, 364 pages. 16 plates (10 in colour). Casebound. The definitive history of the Royal Victorian Order, The Royal Victorian Medal and The Royal Victorian Chain. Tracing the institution and development, the recipients, removals, and the insignia of each. RISK, J., POWNALL, H., STANLEY, D., TAMPLIN, J. Royal Service, Volume Two. 2001. 368 pages, illustrated mainly in colour. Casebound. Continuing the substantive appointments and awards (recorded in Volume I) up to 4 August 2000 and records the honorary appointments to the Royal Victorian Order and honorary awards of the Royal Victorian Medal from 1896 to 2000. It also deals with the Royal Family Orders, Commemorative Medals, Coronation and Jubilee Medals, and Badges of Office. A delightful pair, by reputation, though I do not have them (I should). Spink has both in stock (whence I have lifted this information), at ?60.00 and ?45.00, respectively. Other standard dealers should have then too.

This is perhaps the most immensely bizarre thing I have seen in 40 years of medal collecting. My reading would be: 1- Singapore General Service Medal 2- France Croix de Guerre WWI era 3- US Army Good Conduct Medal 4- UK Atlantic Star This makes NO SENSE AT ALL

Yes, but I don't think the book you allude to keys it to number, does it, Jeff?

Amazing. I do not know of a SINGLE British medal collector who has been able to get ANY RVO information out of the orders chancery (where these records are kept), though it isn't all that hard to get information from the archives at Windsor Palace or even from the Royal Collection (George VI was a medal collector). The RVO is certainly still awarded. I am sure Lizzy gave some away to stable boys at Churchill Downs. (Her great-grandfather dropped them on everyone he met, even doormen.) And it has no relationship to the Queen's Service Order (if that is what you are trying to describe, Rick?) which is awarded in New Zealand (only), in Her capacity as Queen of New Zealand.

The main difference, Claudio, is that the Kriegsarchiv is an archive and the orders chancery is a working office of government. It is, however, immensely rare for any archive, anywhere, to be willing to do the research FOR the researcher, rather than make available the facilities for them to do their own research. Archivists are usually not willing to serve as research assistants (and I don't blame them). You should be grateful that your Kriegsarchiv is the exception to the norm. Efforts by generations of British medal collectors to gain access to the RVO records have failed. This is complicated, of course, by the fact that the order is in the personal gift of the sovereign. But other royal records from Windsor have been available. But the orders chancery folks are very stereotypic bureaucrats, though they are right that doing research for others is not their job; they are, however, not willing to make these records available for people to do their own work (they claim their offices are very cramped). Very frustrating, but that's the way it is, and as with many things in the UK there's no sign of change any time soon.

I guess so, Dave, I guess so. Not being one of the normal clasps, though, it is an interesting invention.

Not a CVO (which is a neck badge), but a MVO (4th class, LVO since 1984) breast badge. (I am amazed how much problem British multi-classed orders seem to present, even for folks to whom a CVxZr4mS is bread and butter.) In case you are interested, current "book value" on a MVO (4th) is in the ?300-350 range. Now the bad news. While rolls for the RVO numbers almost surely exist in the orders chancery in London, they are unavailable. Decades of asking have produced the same answer: We are a working office and do not exist to do research for medal collectors. Still, a nice group.

The "Iraq" clasp would suggest he was, obviously. in Iraq, though not in the Kut operations (for which there is a separate clasp). What clasp (if any) covered operations in Palestine is unclear. Likewise, there seems to have been no clasp for the Caucasus front, some of the nastiest operations the Ottomans faced.

Antonio's links won't work, as it is impossible to go directly to (or link to) his pages. In this age of overly free information "harvesting", this strikes me as a good idea. Go to http://www.coleccionesmilitares.com/cintas/cintasam.htm#e and click on his three Ecuador pages. Once you learn this trick to using his fine site, you will find wonders there.

A nice thread, a bit chaotic for me to sort out, but worth the extra effort (too mant images per post and too little text per post). I might add a few too.

An afterthought: All this being the case, it is a bit strange that he got the "Iraq" clasp to the HM rather than the "Canal" clasp. I guess it is a matter of where he was when, or how the Ottomans drew their lines of qualification for the clasps (that were, in any event, post-war). But service in Palestine as "Iraq"??? What we really do NOT know, is the Ottoman side of the war. I have friends who are trying, though the language skills and patience with chaotic Ottoman archives required are stupendous.

The story that Rick tells is pretty much what is said from the other (victorious) side. I have looked at a number of the war diaries from this theatre, and I have gotten the sense that they were simply moving too fast (and having too much fun winning -- for a change) to care very much about who the opposition was (or used to be). The sense that things fell apart on the Ottoman-German side is very much the tone of the British and Indian war diaries. The Arabs, of course, were far more honest about how they dealt with the eshik Turk ("donkey Turks") and their friends. A very "gentlemanly" war, but by very different rules. Was was, after all, then as now, a sport where you'd better expect to get your القضيب cut off.

Thanks, Rick!!

And the (nice) singleton: Aleksandr Ivanovich Koldunov

Pavel Alexandrovitch Kashurets http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=18403

Two new groups and one new singleton. Ivan Sergeyevich Gladun http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=18405

No, it is my understanding that, as the "friendliness" of Italy came to be called into question, you'd mount it so the king couldn't see out.

Thanks, Rick!

I am not sure how good it is (we all know the limitations of online translation), but the new Google site seems better than the usual gibberish, and it does both Chinese Chinese and Taiwanese Chinese. http://www.google.com/language_tools

I would GUESS it is one of the THOUSANDS of ROTC/Junior ROTC medals. Maybe for marksmanship? The ribbon suggests a connection with the Scabbard and Blade Society, but who knows. We have a lot of these on the OMSA site http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=534 but not this one, sorry.

And three for Delhi. 4- "Rifleman ___aladad Groon, The Sirmoor Rifle Regt" 5- "Subr Major Hummer Singh 3d Coy Seikh Arty" 6- "Sepoy Gomaun Sing Kumaon Battn"

As they happen to be on "home leave" just now, a few more, to reinvigorate the thread: 1- "NAIQUE BABOO CUROWDA. KOLApr. INFy." 2- "Naick Dawah Singh, Regt. of Ferozepore" 3- Central India - "Duffadar Birjies Khan Gwalior Camel Corps"

The more I look at this -- and I nearly gave mysely an injury dragging my copy of Tarihi's book down off the top shelf -- the more I think the red bar (on the Austrian medal, post #2) is merely a rough rendering of T?rkei into semi-Ottoman script. Something made in Austria to doll up the ribbon bar? A lovely bar!