Schwyz

Hi all and thanks for all the interesting replys. Here are two interesting related items — the Urkunde and the envelope it was contained in — Always interested in seeing the "extra" documents Cheers, Gary

Thanks Christer, I appreciate your reply. Did you also see my other Post (at the bottom of Page 11) showing my Canadian issued Frontkämpfer certificate? Gary

Hello all, Here is an interesting small certificate — size — 182 mm x 235 mm printed by — Jankord & Elchberg, Reckenfeld, North Rhine / Westphalia. It may have been slightly trimmed, but probably not too much.

I received an early Christmas gift at a recent military show in Toronto and wanted to share it with anyone who might be interested. I consider myself very fortunate to have acquired this Certificate (with the medal) and believe it's survival to be very rare! Note that the Certificate (and medal) were awarded to Johann ILLIG while he was living in Toronto, Ontario and that the issuing authority was DER DEUTSCHE GENERAL KONSUL FUER KANADA UND NEWFUNDLAND. Johann ILLIG probably came to Canada sometime between 1923 and 1930 and was living in Toronto with his wife Anna. She was Canadian born (in Neustadt, Ontario) but of German descent. Johann was born in 1895 and Anna in 1897. Unfortunately, I do not yet have death dates. The Certificate was signed by Dr.Ludwig Kempff (1872-1937) who was German Consul for Canada headquartered in Montreal from 1922 to 1937. Their office was located at 317 Keefer Building in Montreal. Kempf was born in Altenessen in the Rheinland and was a career diplomat and the top German representative in Canada from 1933 to 1937. He died suddenly in 1937. The issue of the Ehrenkreuz with the accompanying Certificate, like so many others, was probably ILLIG's only recognition of his service for his country during The Great War. I would be very interested in hearing if other Certificates from countries other than Germany have survived. Cheers, Gar

Hello all, Just thought I would post an image of my early Christmas gift obtained at a military show here in Toronto recently. I was very excited to obtain it and believe this CANADIAN issued Frontkämpfer Urkunde is rare! Note that the certificate (and medal) were issued to ILLIG while he was living in Toronto and that the issuing authority is DER DEUTSCHE GENERALKONSUL FUER KANADA UND NEUFUNDLAND. I would be very interested in hearing if anyone else has such a certificate issued in another country other than Germany. Johann ILLIG probably came to Canad between 1923 and 1930 and lived in Toronto with his wife, Anna. She was Canadian born (in Neustadt, Ontario), but of German descent. Johann was born in 1895; Anna was born in 1897. I don't have death dates for them as yet. The Certificate is signed by Dr. Ludwig KEMPFF (1872-1937), German Consul in Montreal, Canada from 1921 to 1937. The office was located at 317 Keefer Building in Montreal. Ludwig Kempff was born in Altenessen in the Rheinland and was a career diplomat of the old school. He was the top ranking German diplomat in Canada from 1933 to 1937.

Thanks for Posting this photo of your new Ehrenkreuz, Jim. It is quiet interesting. I have never seen or heard about one of these before. You are indeed fortunate to have acquired it. Cheers, Gary

Greetings, Christerd, Will be interesting to see the earliest dated example - you've got me beat! My earliest — Eltern — 25 Nov 1934 — Frontk — 1 Dez 1934 — Witwen — 26 Feb 1935 — Kreigst — 1 Jun 1935 My latest — Frontk — 17 Jul 1940 Gar

Hello Uwe, Now that I am able to get back on - was unable to get connected for a couple of days - Thank you for the clarification - your interpretation is exactly what I was hoping for! Now that I have someone who meets my 'qualifications', (you) - can I ask you if you know of any published article describing the Ehrenkreuz in detail - say in one of the militaria magazines in German or English? (I can struggle along in German - my family came from the Rheinland - but a long time ago). I have an keen interest in this humble award, especially in learning more about the initial idea or formation of this award and how and when the idea of it came about. A 'Timeline' would be nice. Any help will be gratefully received. Gar

Thank you Uwe, Treue um Treue is, I believe, a now somewhat dated idiomatic term long since unused, if I am correct. German is not my first language and many older generation Germans I have asked did not seem to be able to offer a convincing translation, perhaps because in may have been a specialized term they were unfamiliar with in their youth - I'm sure their parents would have known though. I did not want to give my suggestion regarding the translation until I heard from a native German speaker who had specific knowledge, so am pleased with your answer because it makes sense given what I thought it would/should be. I have long thought the following longer version below to be near correct, but think your offering, albeit shorter, certainly has the same 'feel' and would probably be used more commonly than the longer version. Treue um Treue = "Loyalty of the Reich for the people and Loyalty of the people to the Reich". Treue um Treue = "Loyalty for the Loyalty' or 'Faithfulness for Faithfulness". Gar

Does anyone have an exact translation for the term TREUE UM TREUE which is inside the private purchase Honour Cross cases? Perhaps a native German speaker will be able to provide the translation for this term.

Paul, Thanks for posting the images. Really nice to see a Ehrenkreuz document from such a different location than the norm. Cheers, Gary

Chris, My feeling is that the Iron Cross — indeed it's very shape is nothing less than iconic in German history — much the same as the Maple Leaf is iconic in Canadian history, the white cross in Switzerland, the Stars and Stripes in the USA and other examples. Look at how many surviving photographs of ordinary soldiers showing them proudly wearing their EK there are — this was a big deal to them at the time and they wanted it recorded for their family history, often with their wife and or family by their side. The Iron Cross shape is still used as a military marking in the German armed forces to this day. The wars of liberation against Napoleon is hugh in German history and the Iron Cross was introduced during this time. During the first war German patriotic jewelry for the most part was in the shape of the Iron Cross (literally hundreds of different designs exist) while so called "sweethearts" in Britain and Canada were in the shape of individual regimental badges, although there were exceptions in both cases of course. I have observed non-collectors over many years who are able to easily identify the Iron Cross but are hard pressed to even come close to being able to ID a Victoria Cross, Military Cross or DFC. I think, in part, this is because of the EKs classic if simplistic and clean design and colouring. Also, in Canada for instance, there are different national symbols which have been used over the last 200 years and which have been depicted differently; the Beaver for instance, differing designs and colours for the Maple Leaf, the national flag. But in Germany the Iron Cross shape has remained constant as a national symbol, even though it's shape has been depicted sometimes in an altered form. Cheers, Gary

Rick, While not possessing 1% of the knowledge you have obviously acquired, I always enjoy reading your Posts and continue to learn from them. I particularly enjoy items which seem to be, at first glance, off the radar screen for many and in this particular Post you illustrate very well how just a little closer look can pay hugh dividends for those who 'look' a little deeper. Cheers, Gary

Hello, These little ribbon devices were worn in the lapels of civilian suit jackets or overcoats by former soldiers. This particular one denotes a man having won the Iron Cross as well as being wounded. Gary

Chris, Not a fortune when you get something really nice. Have enjoyed your EK postcards as well! Do you have any showing women or couples wearing EK Sweetheart or Patriotic pins ? Gary

Chris, I will echo Censlenov's comments. He is correct. I have a Trio with a George VI memorial Cross (Died in 1945). I also have a MM and Trio with a ERII Memorial Cross (Died in 1972). For this one I even have the paperwork concerning it's issue sent to his wife at the time. By both of these dates the original George V Crosses had been depleted therefore the Cross of the current Monarch was issued. Unusual and not common, but in all respects correct. Cheers, Gary

Naxos, I would like to echo Glenn's comments regarding your photo of your Grandmother. What a great photograph with her wearing a patriotic Iron Cross brooch. I have many of these Iron Cross patriotic brooches and pendants and have identified more than a hundred different designs so far, but it is really something to see a great photograph of a beautiful girl actually wearing one. Thanks very much for posting this image, I appreciate seeing it! Cheers, Gary

Glenn, A beautifully engraved Cross with a very poignant inscription; a fortunate purchase indeed! Gary

Ordered my copy from the publisher on the 8th October — arrived today (16th) in Canada. Just starting to go through and at this early point would say this is a must have reference. The information contained in this single volume should benefit collectors in a very real way. Gary

Hello Randy and welcome to the Forum. Just a thought — since you remember this medal as a child it seems to have been in your father's possession for quiet some time. Perhaps he was a collector at some time, but if not, possibly this belonged to a family member. You might want give it some thought and do a little research into your family history. Ask around to see if someone in your family or distant relative has a connection with Canada — who knows what you may discover. They were issued in 1900 when the veterans were at least in their 50s, possibly 60s or older. Gary

I too have always wondered about the significance of these and similar type items. There seem to be many different (Iron Cross motif) patriotic pins, some of good quality, others not very well made. These ones are probably in commemoration of some event or anniversary. Surely someone knows something about these crosses. There seems to be First and Second Class examples. Schwyz

Hello, It appears further research will be required as Alexandre's MC does not seem to be listed for Canadian service (!) Perhaps he won it while serving with a British regiment. Lambert's MC won won as a Lieutenant. Nevertheless, assuming the MC is correct, an unusual grouping to say the least. I should think that an insurance amount would be in the $10,000 to $12,000 range, perhaps even higher ? IF Alexandre's MC can be confirmed.

Looking for Hindenburg Cross ribbon ? all sizes; 8 mm ? 15 mm ? 25 mm and 30 mm to use for a framed display. Does anyone have recommendations or a source? Cheers, Gary

Hello, and thanks for Posting this collection of SAC items. I have a significant group (SAC - WW1 (MC) and post war items (VD)) to a Canadian who finished up a Colonel and who served in the SAC from 1901 to 1908, then returned to Canada. I have added a badge and title to the group for display. It is nice to see a complete array of insignia. Cheers, Gary