Daniel Murphy

Heiko, I have to say, when it comes to bars, you are the man. That is a great group of post war bars, can you tell me what medal the Freikorps bars are on? Dan Murphy

Speaking of post war awarded EKs, I have a grouping (and military records) of a Hauptmann d.R. Arnold Heeren who since October 1916, commanded the II Batt. of Infanterie Ersatz Truppen at Lager Jablonna near Warsaw (This was formerly Russian military base "Camp Hurki"). There were 3 battalions of ersatz troops at this camp. When the war ended on November 11, 1918, the men of the former Pilsudski's Legion were released from German camps where they had been confined since refusing to take an oath of allegence to the Kaiser in 1914. They arrived in Warsaw by train the next day and the Polish Regency Council appointed Pilsudski as the commander of the Polish Army. Apparently the German military government asked Pilsudski to help prevent anarchy and attacks on German troops still in the area and armed his men. Pilsudski had other plans, which were to disarm the Germans stationed here and take them as prisoners. Some of Pilsudski's men occupied the rail station outside of Lager Jablonna and ordered the Germans to lay down their arms and surrender. The Germans, of course, refused to be disarmed and there was an attempt to disarm them by force, which resulted in a three-day battle at the camp. This attack failed and resulted in a Polish defeat. The Germans at Lager Jablonna were then allowed to leave and return to Germany by train starting on November 15, 1918. Hauptmann Heeren was soon returned to Germany and was demobilized on Nov. 30, 1918. His EK 2 was awarded on September 16, 1914 and his EK1 was awarded to him on August 25, 1919. Hptm. Heeren had last served at the front in June 1916, when he received his third wound. So, I thought that if he had been recommended for a EK1 due to an action in 1916 but the paperwork was lost (or whatever), he had two years to get the error corrected and should have been awarded it before August 1919. Perhaps it was so late because he was awarded it for the post-war engagement with these Polish troops. Any thoughts on this? Dan Murphy PS: One more thing to add. Where it lists the battles he participated in, one entry states "1917-1918. Service in the war zone at Warsaw".

Mike, That is a classic example of a Russian surplus gun. Some of these are being imported with the markings intact. Since yours was made in 1938, it should originally have had a rust blue finish like on a pre war luger etc. If it a a dark blue black it has also been refinished. Most of the russian guns have been. Dan Murphy

Here is an example of a chaplain's armband. In this case a TR one, but WW1 was similar. I saw an imperial one at a show once. It was much higher quality and the Red Cross and purple band were in silk, as befitting an officer. The dealer was not at his table at the time and when I came back it was gone. Dan Murphy

Ah yes, how do I know it is German? It is maker marked on the inside. The only word I can really make out is "Scharfenburg".

I picked up this medical armband many years ago and just recently ran across it. I have never seen another one like it, and I presume it to be from some sort of Christian medical unit. I am fairly sure it is not TR and believe it to be from WW1, since there were many volunteer groups tending to the needs of the wounded. The cross is formed of many rows of chainstitched thread. I know it is not a military chaplains. Does anyone remember seeing another one and perhaps know what it is? Dan Murphy

Eitze, Beautiful super rare piece. Glad you could perhaps reunite some old friends. Andreas, You continue to amaze me with the pieces and groupings you post. Well, are you going to tell us who it belonged to or make us guess? Dan Murphy

Mike, If they are there, I cannot see them. I have tried to get a more close up shot of the hallmarks, but when I blow it up too big I lose resolution and get a blur. Again, that mark is only about 1mm in size. There is only so much you can get on a stamp that small. I agree that the core and frame on Joes piece does not match mine. Since mine is a convex there would be a different mold/die for the core. I do not know if the frame for a convex would be struck from a different die and be pre-curved or would it be curved after being struck. As Rick L. stated the <FR> would not be on an item imported into Austria, it had to be made in Austria. According to my sources A is the code letter for Vienna until 1922. After 1922, the hallmark laws were changed and then the letter for Vienna was W (Wien). The head of Diana was also eliminated and various animal heads were used. The marks in the center are definitely an "R x _" or a misstamped "R & _". There is part of another letter there but it is so weak all I can see is a very weak vertical "l". The last letter could have been a N or a F or almost any other letter with a straight vertical line. It is just impossible to tell and even harder to show it to you all. Sorry, but with the equipment I have it just is not happening. Dan Murphy

Joe, The hinge is sitting on an oval base, not countersunk. Just an optical illusion. Rick, I tried to get a better pic of the hallmarks for you, but could not. We are talking about some hand applied almost microscopic marks on a rounded piece of silver not more than 3mm wide. Personally, if the Evil One says it is a Rothe, that is good enough for me. However, just for a possible last nail in the coffin for the rest of us.... Does anyone perhaps have a known Rothe that could be posted so that we could use it to compare core details and frame beading? Like you all, I just it. Thanks for the kind comments. Dan Murphy

Micha, I wish I could go to a local flea market and pick up 3 eks just like that. The "lazy2" as you called it is a very odd maker mark it almost looks like V2O or U20. The second looks like a We with a misformed e. Nice ones. Dan Murphy

Close up of the hallmarks. Above is the "A" for Vienna, bottom right is the "Diana head", bottom left is the "FR" in a diamond. In the center is that a "R & N" stamped over another weak "A"? Dan Murphy

Close up of silver mark and hinge.

Reverse.

I acquired this EK 1 a couple days ago because I liked it and it was in 900 silver. The core has been repainted many years ago and it is cracked between the crown and W. When I got it home, I looked it over with a jewelers loupe and found hallmarks under the pin near the hinge. At the time I could make out the Diana head (silver) and FR in a diamond (tax paid) hallmarks but not much else. I had little hope of getting a good picture of the hallmarks since I could not see them very well with the loupe. As you shall see they turned out better than expected. Dan Murphy

Gerd, Another finger is occupied. Here is mine. I would love to find one on the ribbon. Dan Murphy

Chris, This is what I believe. Just a guess, but an educated one. This is perhaps a second pattern M17 Lederschutzmask gas mask container. The cans were made under contract, so would have to be made to the specifications laid down by the German Government. Therefore I do not think this is just a makers variation. All other cans have a circular paper in the bottom with instructions on it. When the mask is out of the can and worn on the neck in the alert position, the can is usually left open. Under combat conditions, the paper instructions can and do sometimes fall out. I have seen this happen several times with my living history/reenactment unit. Perhaps the instructions were changed into a pamphlet or booklet format and these metal prongs were used to hold it in more securely. I have only seen a few of these, but every one has the deeper top lid like yours. Unfortunately I have never seen one with instructions in it. However, since every other type of can included instructions, it would make sense that these did as well. A piece of paper lying in the bottom with with German printed on it, can be seen to be just that. No need to remove it. A small booklet would raise an allied soldiers curiousity to see what it was. Something hidden? Some important document? Hmm, just a piece of paper with German writing on it. Then perhaps it is given to the officer in charge as a captured document or just balled up and thrown away. There is also another type of M17 can, the laminated plywood can with metal top and bottom. Very rare. Dan Murphy PS: If anyone has this can or has seen one with whatever the prongs are supposed to hold, I too would like to see or hear about it.

Here is a link to the list on Tony Schnurr's web site "Kaiser's Bunker". Since you are just starting out on 1914 EKs, I would recommend staying with the 3 piece types (silver frame and iron center). There are original one and two piece stampings, buy most EK2 fakes are one piece. Also check out the fakes threads shown at the top of the The Orders, Decorations and Medals of The Imperial German States forum section, the fakes are getting very good and will fool most people unless you know what to looks for. Dan Murphy EK 2 makers

Rick, Come on! You announce to everyone that this has had you puzzled for 21 years. Then you wonder why no one tackles it. If it took you that long, what chance have mere mortals? Great job on finding it. If we had a cold case squad, you would head it up. Dan Murphy

I agree. Why they didn't just paint the TK on the helmet the way some real freikorps units did, I will never know. Dan Murphy

Decker, The cross looks like a real one to me. The catch has of course been replaced, at what time I cannot tell. The 800 mark is also in an odd place. I have never seen one there. The fact that it looks like "8O0" with the middle number larger than the others on either side, makes me think it has been handstamped recently using individual numbers. So, IMHO, you have a real cross with a fake silver mark and most likely a modern repair as well. Dan Murphy

I will go one step further. As soon as I saw Deschler and 1870 Iron Cross mentioned by Kevin, I knew what it was. I have seen these fakes before. The name of the firm is Deschler "&" Sohn of Munich. To my knowledge this firm never produced 1870 Iron Crosses, so that is one dead give away. The numbered maker mark on the pin is another. And the final nail in the coffin is the hinge and pin assembly. This looks to be a fake of Latvian origin, from seeing them in the past. If you are not sure, do not buy any 1870 without doing your research and perhaps running it by the gentlemen here for a vote of confidence. Dan Murphy

Almost always plum and apple (mixed). "When the 'ell is it gonna be strawberry?". Sorry old chap, the officers and NCOs "copped" most of that. Seriously, many times the ration parties got lost and wandered around all night. When it started getting light they had to return to the rear with it being undelivered. Other times the ration parties would become casualties. At other times when under intense shelling prior to an enemy attack (when the need was greatest) ration parties were not sent out to an inevitable death. Either way the result was the same, the men in the line went without food and water. Dan Murphy

Rick, Since he is missing his cap badge and does not look as happy as the Germans, I would say he is the prisoner. I love the troddel on his cane though. Dan Murphy

In a dugout you do whatever will keep your head warm . Seriously though, I believe it was proper to remove your headgear when entering a dwelling, office or HQ. In a soldiers "entertainment" hall, this is not exactly polite company, (unless it is an actual theater) and regulations would probably not be stictly adhered to. In my reenactment unit there is a retired Lt. Col. who, while in Germany was a liason officer with the Bundeswehr. He has told us in the past "A German soldier would never wear his collar unhooked" or "A German soldier never stood around with his hands in his pockets". However I have wartime photos of WW1 German soldiers doing just that. Peacetime is one thing, wartime is often something quite different where regulations are concerned. A soldier would never wear his collar unbuttoned during peacetime or perhaps in Berlin during the war, because he will get in trouble for not wearing his uniform properly. The soldier at the front that has never worn his collar unhooked or unbuttoned because he was hot or irritated, has never really been "AT the front", but behind it. Dan Murphy

I have several photos of Austrian Camos and some are remarkably like the German style incluing the black dividing stripes. Since the Germans and Austrians served along side each other in France and Italy, it is not unusual that there would be some copying of the German style by the Austrians. I believe that if German done, it would have been done using more colors and more, smaller patches of color. I have also seen Austrian brown on German helmets, so they used whatever was available or could be found. Dan Murphy