Daniel Murphy

That is a beautiful cross you have there. I love them with that 90 year old black patina, please don't ever clean it. My first EK1 was a 1914 WS. It is well worn with the beading on the bottom arm worn smooth from rubbing a steel wound badge and the core is now a brown patina. I paid 60 dollars for it back in the early 80's (you got a better deal) and will never sell it, as it is one of my favorites. Dan Murphy

Beautiful weapon. These must be extremely rare. In the New book by Jurgen Krause of field grey uniforms of the german army, the last chapter is on this association. It shows an original uniform and also shows Prince Heinrich in full regalia as head of this organization. He is wearing an example of this dagger. If this was a gift from a friend, he should have your everlasting graditute for a piece like this. I it. Dan Murphy

Bob, I looked this up and it is the motto of the Hay clan in Scotland. It refers to a member of the clan who slew some danish invaders with just an ox yoke. I remembered that Ken Greenfield of Der Rittmeister Militaria had and still has a grouping of an officer that served in the German army for over 30 years including WW1, named Arthur Hay. Here is part of the writeup, "It concerns a Prussian officer with the unexpected name "Arthur Hay." Hay went from an Unteroffizier in 1886, to at least the rank of Oberstleutnant in 1917. He started in the cavalry and served in both Ulanen, Hussaren and Dragoon regiments prior to the war?s outbreak. He achieved the coveted rank of Rittmeister well before the war began in 1914. As best as I can make out, he went from the cavalry to the infantry [as the war developed, most cavalry fought as dismounted troops. WW I showed once and for all that mounted troops were outmoded]. He served as an infantryman until the end of the war. Hay served at least THIRTY years in uniform. He survived the war and even received the Hindenburg Cross in 1935. There are no less than SIX Promotion Patents, covering him from the ranks of unteroffizier up to major. I do not quite understand why, but two different patents promoting Hay to Rittmeister, with different dates, are included! Of these six patents, no less than THREE have been personally signed by Kaiser Wilhelm II (the two for Rittmeister and the one for Major). Each of these patents is very ornate and hand printed by a skilled calligrapher, with special seals. Also in this grouping are many award documents. We see documents for prewar and wartime decorations. We see documents signed by TWO different dukes of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Of his three wartime decorations, we see the documents for his 1914 Iron Cross 2nd Class and his Knight?s Cross with Swords of the Hohenzollern House Order (HHO). The latter document is signed by the Graf Zeppelin, prior to his death in 1917. I have never seen his signature on an award document; having it on an HHO document is a real plus! There are a couple of other documents that I have not described which enhance the grouping. Below is a listing of this amazing grouping?s contents: Promotion Patent: from Unteroffizier to Portopee F?hnrich, dated 13 November 1886. Promotion Patent: from Portopee F?hnrich to Second-Lieutenant, dated 17 September 1887. [i find this interesting, note the old-fashioned use of the French rank: "second-lieutenant"]. Promotion Patent: from Second-Lieutenant to Premier-Lieutenant, dated 14 November 1895. I again find it interesting, the old-fashioned use of the French ranks second-lieutenant and premier-lieutenant. Promotion Patent: from Oberleutnant to Rittmeister, dated 21 January 1902, and personally signed by Kaiser Wilhelm II. [Now we see the change to oberleutnant, as opposed to premier-lieutenant]. Promotion Patent: from Oberleutnant to Rittmeister, dated 10 September 1908, also personally signed by Kaiser Wilhelm II. Why he has a second document for this same rank, I do not fully understand. Promotion Patent: from Rittmeister to Major, dated 17 September 1909, again with the personal signature of Kaiser Wilhelm II. Award document for the Knight?s Cross with Swords of the Hohenzollern House Order, dated 20 May 1917 while Hay was an oberstleutnant. It is signed by Graf Zeppelin! Award document for the Prussian Crown Order 4th Class, dated 12 May 1901. Award document for the Red Eagle Order 4th Class, dated 11 May 1908. Award document for the Knight?s Cross 2nd Class Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, dated 6 August 1900, and personally signed by Alfred, the Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Award Document for the Knight?s Cross 1st Class Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, dated 21 August 1908, and personally signed by Carl Eduard, the final Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Award document for the Kaiser Wilhelm I Centennial Medal. 1914 Iron Cross 2nd Class. The document is double-dated. The date 3 November 1914 appears, which is the document's original award date. The document was prepared on 5 June 1916. This either is the document's reissue date, or they were correcting an oversight. Award document to the Hamburg Hanseatic Cross, dated 12 March 1917. Award document for the Hindenburg Cross for Combatants, dated 1935. A helpful reader has done some additional research on Arthur Hay. As you can see from the list below, published research shows that this man eventually achieved the rank of Generalmajor at his retirement in 1919. He was born in 1866 and died in 1940. I only wish that the additional three patents were available. This is still an amazing group and there is an opportunity for further research. This is a wonderful grouping following the very successful military career of a young man who came up from the ranks. It includes three signatures from Kaiser Wilhelm II, two different Dukes from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, and a signature from the legendary Graf Zeppelin. We have received some interesting details on this officer from a sharp eyed reader who has done some research. In the book "Hussars and Mounted Rifles....." by D. H. Hagger on page 30 there is a photograph of Oberleutnant Hay as a member of Hussar Regiment Nr 9! It is wonderful to put a face with the name. We thank Chris F. for his research and dilligence! Sekondelieutenant: 17 Sep 1887 Premierlieutenant: 14 Nov 1895 Rittmeister: 21 Sep 1898 Major: 17 Sep 1909 Oberstleutnant: 24 Dec 1914 Oberst: 6 Nov 1917 Generalmajor aD: 1919 $2,995.00" As you can see it is expensive. Since he got the HHOXRK, he definitely got the EK1. Would be nice if you can prove it was his. Here is a link to the page. Arthur Hay Dan Murphy

Here is the small grouping it came with from Germany. Dan Murphy

Joe, While it is in no way as nice as those posted by others, here is mine. It is just a nicely scratch engraved S-W with the date of the award and belonged to a naval officer name unknown. Dan Murphy

The British Empire and Imperial Germany were on good terms during this time (1897). Since it was not unusual for officers and or royalty to be invited to military events in friendly countries, I would say it was presented with a revolver to an officer during an event like this. Since it came out of Germany, I would say it was given to a German officer. Perhaps the commander of the Garrison in Omamru. By the way, I do not know who the commander of the garrison in Omamru was in 1897, but later in 1904, it was Hauptmann Viktor Franke. He was an officer in the Schutztruppe in DSWA dating from 1896 and was awarded the Pour le Merite in 1905 for his actions in the native uprisings. He went on to become the last military commander in DSWA when the military forces surrendered in 1914 to, interestingly, the South African's. Naw, couldn't be........ Dan Murphy

Claudio, Beautiful pieces. that last one is an unmarked Deutsche Offizier Verein Made cross. Dan Murphy

Here is the obverse, it is heavily silver plated over brass or tombak. There is no doubt that this is a WW1 or pre WW1 insignia. One thing I have learned the hard way in imperial collecting, you can never say never. You may not like the way it is made and may not ever want it in your collection, but it can still be real. Dan Murphy

Stogieman, I understand your concerns about these pieces. However the shooting award is die struck as well, not cast. The more than liberal application of solder for securing the pins and crown to the back (which would not normally be seen on a piece like this) makes it look cast. Here is a pic of the whole reverse, Dan Murphy

Kunsho, Yours could be a "square" MM EK1. I have one with a similar hinge and pin. The small square mark could be on the end of the pin or covered up by the repair to the catch. They are very high quality crosses. The engraved dedication leaves nothing to be desired either. Joe, You own that! I saw it in "The Iron Time" and it is a beauty. I have never seen a pin like that, are there any maker marks? All I have is a scratch engraved date on my S-W that came with a German naval officers grouping.

Gary, I do not frequest the TR threads much, but I have to say that Austrian mounted Ost medal is the most beautiful I have ever seen. Dan Murphy

Joe, That is a Beauty! I would say it is definitely pre-war and is probably the highest quality patriotic piece I have ever seen. Due to the jeweler's name on the lid of the case, this would not have been a presentation stickpin as given by the Kaiser or Crown Prince. It was, no doubt, custom made for a gentleman who demanded only the highest quality and could well afford it. Cheers Dan Murphy

Here is a close up of the markings. This makes three variations now. DRGM 650006 with name, DRGM 650006 without name and this one. Makes you wonder, are any more out there? Dan Murphy Footnote: I have been researching DRGM numbers and the Hansen DRGM number 650006 dates to approximately December 1914. (The Meybauer screwback with DRGM number 653146 dates to the same period.) DM

Here is the reverse, Dan Murphy

It is late for Christmas, but better late than never. This little piece should be winging it's way to me shortly. Here is a variation of a Hansen EK1, I have never seen before. This is apparently the first type that they manufactured. It has a smaller 38mm backplate in the same style but is slightly different. The markings are "M. Hansen" underneath was the 800, crescent moon and crown, but this has been polished/struck out. Then "D.R.G.M" and "Angem.". The last word is an abbreviation for Angemeldet. This means that the pattern has been submitted for DRGM protection but that it has not been registered yet. Sort of like a "Patent Applied For" marking. From what I can find Hansen was given the DRGM number 650006 circa December 1914. This would mean this piece was made in 1914. The only reason that I can think they would remove the silver markings is if the piece was made in a grade of silver less than 800. It was stated to be all silver. (I know the the Germans had a leather shortage in 1914-15 due to the blockade, was there a silver shortage too?) The core is cracked on the left arm as you are looking at it. This would indicate to me that it was worn during the war. I looked at the photo of the "Hansen Horde" and did not see one like this, however it's condition is similar to some from that find. I plan to control the rust problem when I get it. OK, lets get to the good part, the pictures. Dan Murphy

Darrell, I feel your pain. Really, I have had to part with number of items as well. But I have found that many times what you part with you can never get back. Let's see, Confederate Fayetteville Armory Rifle dated 1864, Winchester model 1866 Saddle ring carbine made in 1870, etc. etc.. Keep them if you can. Dan Murphy

Here is the reverse, don't you just hate people that destroy stuff! In this case at least it serves to demonstate a construction method. The crown has tabs underneath to be soldered to the wreath. You can see that this is very old solder and is original to the piece. Merry Christmas Mike! Dan Murphy

Mike, While looking at your badge and replying to this thread, an alarm when off in the back of my mind. "Where have I seen this before?" I found it, I have a Bavarian regimental shooting prize like this. Unfortunately it has been abused and all of the prongs are gone and so is the backplate. It is sewn to the cloth backer. This must have been made by a company that catered to the Prussian's AND the Bavarian's. The original die must have been for one with a Prussian Hohenzollern crown. Instead of making a completely new die for the entire piece, the maker simply made a die for the Bavarian Wittelsbach crown. The badge was made in the first die, the Prussian crown was then removed and the Bavarian crown added. Here is a detail of my shooting prize, the crown is not the exactly the same, but the principal is. This is also an issue piece like the steel pilot badges. Dan Murphy

Here is a close up of the maker marks. They are so tiny, I did not realize they were there for several years. I cannot make them out and have never bought a microscope. I am very hesitant to send this to anyone for fear it will get lost in the mail. Dan Murphy

The reverse. This was made using two sets of handmade and hand engraved dies. The first set formed the center design on the sheet of silver and the second set formed the raised edge. There appears to be some silver solder in the outside corners where the metal may have split in the second die. Dan Murphy

Joe, Since you asked, I never get tired of showing off this beauty. I feel this is the most fantastic piece in my collection and I am truly appreciative that I am allowed to own it and share it with you. I have shown it to a few gentlemen and I understand it is Russian jeweler made c.1830. Dan Murphy

Greg, You are right! I have taken the images of mine and the one that David posted and have made side by side comparisons of the detail of the core and the frame beading. In many ways the details on the one I posted are more intricate than on the other, but it showed that there is no way these two crosses were made by the same manufacturer. So who made a medal as good as or better than Godet? Beats me. Dan Murphy

OK, after taking more pics ( a lot @#%^$ more!), I finally was able to manipulate one that shows the marking fairly well and is not all washed out. Dan Murphy

Once again the markings (which I had never noticed before) are on the small ring attached to the frame of the cross. The 925 marking is clear but the other one in an unusual shaped stamp appear to be in Farsi or something. There are no discernable letters, just what looks (to me) like a bunch of curved lines that are raised within the stamp. Here is the best shot I was able to get of the marks, Dan Murphy

Here is the reverse, notice the stem curves to the right, the pebbling on the oaks and the fine detail on the acorns. Also look at the unusual shaped numbers in the 1813. Dan Murphy