Tim B

Lambert, That's a great looking bar and some of those medals are quite rare in and of themselves, let alone on a mini bar! Congrats my friend, really nice! Tim Peron, I don't see any picture here? Gunner, Yes, I too have noticed some posting issues of recent as well, not with adding attachments so much, for me links do not post correctly and instead once the link is added to the draft block, it changes to a copy of the actual post. Example: Here's a sharp mini that recently ended on auction for 360. eu. I previously posted this in the British section of Vic's and also in the Russian Imperial section on mini medals. Can't be too many bars with a Military Cross and Russian St Anna. Had to be an officer (Captain or below) or Warrant Officer during WW1 and specifically for bravery as it was a gallantry type award. The St Anna Order shown is for distinguished civil service (swords for military service), so maybe a guy that help Russia in some capacity? One would think this bar could be traced back to a known recipient. Great bar but I can only imagine the price had it been full size! Enjoy! Tim

Hello Lambert, Yes, no kidding, how often do you see a bar with a Military Cross and Russian St Anna? Had to be an officer (Captain or below) or Warrant Officer during WW1 and specifically for bravery as it was a gallantry type award. The St Anna Order shown is for distinguished civil service (swords for military service), so maybe a guy that help Russia in some capacity? One would think this bar could be traced back to a known recipient. Great bar but I can only imagine the price had it been full size! Tim

re: Topic on Award Documents/Certificates For those that are interested in starting a separate topic header on award documents or certificates, what's wrong with the current topic already listed on (page 2): Victory Medal Award Documents in General Appears to me that issue is already resolved unless I don't understand the issue fully. Perhaps some didn't realize there is a second page of topics? Tim Done, think we are over thinking this and want to be done with it, hopefully no one has issues and honestly, shouldn't as every other section has the same ability for members to add new topics for discussion. Here it is: Medal & Ribbon BARS - Full Size & Mini's

All, I've just been updated that the moderator now wants all those interested in this topic to respond here vice PM'ing me back on it, so save your time and just reply here. Thank you and apologize for any inconvenience. Tim

Rick, PM answered. Yes, but again, this particular thread is not always read and with 2013 being the last comment date, I image many skip over it. I would like to continue my canvassing of those that I have asked for their inputs; who knows which way it will go from here. Bottom line, the forum only succeeds if it works for those members participating in it or others that might stumble across this section of GMIC and have interest in WW1 Victory Medals. As far as I am aware, this forum is the only decent online discussion venue for these medals. Anyway, I am in and out today and will periodically check in as time permits. I encourage all that read and find this section of the forum useful to weigh in with thoughts and ideas. Tim

Morning Rick, Well, I thought we kind of agreed that I would privately canvass members here first and get back to you on this issue before proceeding, maybe I missed something? Five PM’s from various people this morning and I am stuck wondering what happened overnight. To all others whom it may concern, I brought this subject up due to the last item I shown in the British section on Victory Medals, something you just don't see and normally wouldn't if you collect singles or if you’re not looking specifically in the British section. IMO, the rare bar brings a whole new dimension into it. I know there are members that do not collect singles and are more interested in bars and in some cases, collectors that specifically collect minis. Personally, I think it might add to the discussions and be able to better compare like items of interest under one header. Currently, you have to search under the respective country to see anything and I would not see a need to remove those posts already in place, just add a new section where they may be seen under a different view. Those items previously shown in their specific country of origin will, to my belief, make their way into the new section as well because most collectors like to show off and discuss their items. The new topic will build on itself as time goes on. Some history on the subject if I may as I think it shows my point here, For those of us who remember the one, original thread on victory medals as it previously existed prior to having its own sub-section of the forum, divided by country; there was one thread, with everything and no organization at all. It was hard searching for particulars in a thread that spanned several pages with no direction. That thread, this one you’re currently reading was a royal pain to use. Back when I was moderating and first proposed the Victory Medal section, Nick had some of the very same concerns about putting items from various countries into one large group instead of discussing them separately by country of origin but, as you well know, these particular (WW1 Victory) medals have an international flavor of their own and are of interest to a certain group of collectors in particular. It took some time and persuasion on my part to sell the idea to Nick. I think most would agree, by the number of posts and certainly by the numbers of viewership, that it is a rather successful section of GMIC. It certainly does better than other sections of the forum and in many cases outranks many sections combined. I had originally intended to clean this thread up and move the information into the respective areas but then quit moderating back in 2011 before I could clean the thread up. Honestly, my thoughts in the end were to leave the thread as is due to the difficulty in separating everything and trying to make sense of it afterwards and simply titled it under “General Discussions”. Back to my recommendations: I think all that’s needed to do is simply start a new “topic” line and let it go from there. The topic would be specific to medal and ribbon bars and would include full and miniature size medals. Would one topic thread be good enough, or should it be separated between full and mini size medals? Perhaps that's something we would need to discuss but, discussing the issue in this thread, where it might not be seen or read (last post here was from 2013!!) is NOT the way I would address the issue. I might recommend asking, maybe via a vote, poll, or survey, if others would like a section to show medal/ribbon bars. That section could cover both full size and miniatures. The thing about bars is many get lost in various discussions and bars do seem to attract certain collectors, where singles don't always. I know it’s hard sometimes as moderator letting things go with collectors starting to veer off in their own directions. Type variations don't really intrigue me as much, unless they show how fakes are progressing. Still, others like that part of collecting. I am a "type" collector but am happy with the standard "official" issues in most cases or, different makers/hallmarks. To each their own and as long as the forum is benefiting, who cares, it’s their hobby as much as mine. Back when I started this section of the forum, I had thrown out the idea of including the State issued medals and some did not want to have those included in the section, but I added it anyway. I think that section has done as well as many of the other areas thus far and again, brings in guys that collect those specific items. In closing and as I stated in my opening comments, I have been trying to canvass members that have participated regularly in this section, via PM, on their thoughts regarding the issue and many have not got back to me as of yet. Must remember, we are an international group and many have lives outside this forum, so timely responses are not always the norm here, so we need to be patient. Two members thus far have also shown interest in a separate topic on "award documents or certificates". Though I have not addressed that topic specifically, it might be something worthwhile to add to the discussions as well. My thoughts anyway, gotta run at the moment. Tim

All three are restrikes. The 1st Nicaraguan was produced by BB&B and all were numbered and on split brooch to the best of my knowledge. Many medals were produced using these sewn slot brooch well into the 1960's. The ribbon on your example looks pretty new and may have been added with a solid brooch to make it look more period. The 2nd Nicaraguan (center) was probably made for the collector's market and has the wrong reverse. The Haitian Campaign Medal was the last service/campaign medal that utilized the reverse with this style eagle and the reverse design change started with the Dominican Campaign Medal and lasted up till WW2. The Graco produced example on the right shows the correct reverse but Graco produced medals under contract in the 1990's after Lordship lost their government contracts. Here's an original 2nd Nicaraguan from the U.S. Mint contract of 1930 and you can compare quality to those shown above. Tim

Well, this thread is two years old and certainly not helpful to Christer at this point but the shield that started the thread is original for those that wanted to know. Not sure what happened to the thread linked in post #3 as it is no longer available?? Tim Here's a link to a 2010 discussion that might be of interest and there is new information on this one now as well. You need to remove the space between // and gmic and cut & paste. For some reason, when posting the direct link, it would no go there. http:// gmic.co.uk/forums/topic/42054-a-new-krim/#comment-389156

Not sure if anyone seen this mini bar that sold this weekend but thought I would share it here as it has a nice looking mini Vic along with a nice Russian St Anna Order, something you don't see everyday!! Tim Moderator: We need a separate mini-section here where we can combine all the mini singles and bars.

This mini bar just sold last weekend for 360.eu Did anyone here get it? Tim

Iver, Not in possession of the journal and would have to use a online translation to read Czech. Do you have that issue and can you elaborate what the article stated? Tim

Yes, I know but every now and then....you can get lucky on items.

Understand completely and some sites do not block search engines like Google, so the images posted in forums are more than often available for anyone to see doing a basic search. I personally don't like that but its all up to the site whether or not that option is allowed. Either way, you own the rights to the PIC's you take/make regardless. Good luck! Tim

Just remember to get written permission to use anyone's images beforehand. Copyright infringement can be very costly as some have found out: http://blog.webcopyplus.com/2011/02/14/legal-lesson-learned-copywriter-pays-4000-for-10-photo/

One thing I forgot to mention regarding the above references; despite the Lou Small and Richard Planck references being in black & white, the images depicted in the Planck reference are true to size and that is sometimes helpful. Here's an example:

LOL! I remember visiting this topic a few years ago and the issues of copies then. Now I am glad this item went high enough for me not to be interested! Tim

These awards are so beautiful. One sold on Ebay last month for $546. Looked very nice to my eyes but I didn't have $500. laying around. Tim

PM inbound

Thanks guys! Yes, I have some questions regarding the two higher awards and was hoping someone would know more specifics regarding the swords vs non-swords as it pertains to the medal vs ribbon bars. Greek medals are not really within my collecting area in general but I do like the Balkan and World War medals. This is the only Greek bar I have with the WW1 Victory Medal as part of the group The Balkan War medals are getting rather hard to find anymore, especially with multiple clasps. Thanks again! Tim

Hi farmer, Yes, its hard to compete with the quality of any order manufactured pre-1900. Still, the quality of the enamel on this one is rather nice with a even translucent green that is much more appealing than some of later manufacture. What was interesting to me is the one piece ribband-lion center. Prior to this example, I have only seen the lion separately applied to the black centers. If you look closely at my example above, you can see the upper paw was accidently folded under the lion during the manufacturing/assembly process. Unfortunately, it cannot be moved at this point as the metal is too thin. I purposely did not show the reverse as it has the letter "I" often associated with Wolfers but I honestly don't know if that's accurate information anymore? Thank you for responding! Tim

Slightly off topic but wasn't it a couple years ago someone back (eastern Europe) started faking the Albanian Star badges as well? I seem to remember those were getting rather good in enamel work too. There is a Soviet Awards Forum that also discusses other communist related items. If you are not already aware of it, it might be of interest: http://soviet-awards.com/forum/ Tim

Nick, You are a wealth of knowledge! Tim

Hello Dave, Yes, I understood, I only mentioned the point of those still willing to shell out good money for fakes. See it all the time in other areas, a German RK being one prime example. The "thought" being, I can't afford an original that commands in excess of $5000. for a decent example but am willing to spend $300. to $500. on a fake! I just do not understand the mentality, nor the desire to add a fake to a legitimate collection. Yes, Mike and George Shank have been at this for sometime now and I don't see any end to it. As you noted, once those items get passed to someone else, they eventually show up again for sale as originals. I've seen a particular seller that moved a couple recently and one of his Cuban's was an outright (Shank) fake that was listed as "later production". Troubling to say the least. Tim

I had asked questions on another forum a few years back and wanted to know if anyone here might have any additional information? I understand the official name is "Commemorative Medal of the National Revolt in Adria" or as I had translated as, the "Commemorative Medal for the National Resistance in the Adriatic Sea". It's a commemorative medal awarded by the Union of Marine Revolutionists in 1948 on occasion of the 30th anniversary of the mutiny of Austrian marines of Czech origin in the Austrian Naval base in Boka Kotorska. As Czechoslovakia was landlocked and did not have a navy, I suspected it was awarded to those serving in the Austro-Hungarian fleet. I know at one point, up to ten percent of the Austro-Hungarian Imperial and Royal War Navy was made up of Czech sailors. The Austro-Hungarian fleet was mostly made up of German U-boats, and about a third of the men who served on them were Czech. Czechs also worked as engineers, musicians, and doctors in the navy as well. Because the medal commemorates a revolt, I can't help but wonder if this belonged to a sailor involved in the mutiny of 1918. On February 1st, 1918, sailors serving on some 40 war ships in the Bay of Kotor mutinied. Initially, the 3-day mutiny was interpreted as a rebellion of the oppressed Slavic nations against their German leaders but the effort moved them to finally arrive at peace, or at least be given better provisions. Many of the participants were sentenced to death for their actions. The only information online I've found is from Wikipedia: The Gulf of Kotor Mutiny was an unsuccessful revolt by sailors of the Austro-Hungarian Navy in 1918. The mutiny took place in the Gulf of Kotor naval base. As World War I progressed, the cumulative effects of wartime economic and social disorganization became pervasive and the discipline of Austro-Hungarian soldiers faded away. Hunger, cold and pointless drills resulted in complaints, desertions and strikes. Revolutionary propaganda fuelled by the example of the Russian Revolution spread among soldiers and workers. On February 1, 1918 a mutiny started in the Fifth fleet at the Gulf of Kotor naval base on the Adriatic Sea. Sailors on about 40 ships had joined the mutiny. Initial demands for better treatment were soon replaced by political demands and a call for peace. The mutiny failed to spread to other units. On February 3, the loyal Third fleet arrived and together with coastal artillery engaged in a short and successful skirmish against the mutineers. About 800 sailors were imprisoned, dozens were court-martialed and four seamen were executed (the leader of the uprising, Bohemian social democrat Fraz Rasch and three Croatians). The Commander-in-Chief of the fleet, Maximilan Niegovan, was replaced by Miklos Horthy, who was later promoted to Rear Admiral (Konteradmiral). Here are a couple of online photos showing Czech sailors during the time period. I have found it listed in the Sukenik/Novontny reference but it really doesn't give much information on it. Finally, from an online source, here's a certificate (numbered 76) for this medal. Not sure how many were actually awarded but, if the number of imprisoned sailors were around 800, then I would imagine the medal to have a production number below 1000. Does anyone know for sure? Thank you, Tim

I agree with Paul here and actually find the one shown in post #78 still rather crude looking. If I was so inclined to add a space filler, I think I would just add a cheaper version for a tenth of the price as they are readily available on Ebay. I cannot understand why people continue to spend good money on fakes as it only continues the demand for such items and someone certainly spent a good amount here. A fake is still a fake in my book. Tim