Tim B

Kicking a dead horse I know, but...another one. This one is another earlier piece (IMO) based on the type of double A on the reverse and the cutout palms. Tim

No worries, I didn't expect it either. Tim

Here's an interesting one. I see on page 18 of "Battle Participation of Organizations of the American Expeditionary Forces in France, Belgium, and Italy. 1917-1918", that the US 28th Division, 53rd Field Artillery Brigade, had three field artillery units (battalions?) (107th; 108th; 109th) that qualified for the Ypres-Lys Offensive bar. The particular combination of bars varies considerably from the normal 28th Division examples that have both the Champagne-Marne and Aisne-Marne bars and not the Ypres-Lys clasp. As discussed sometime back, the Laslo and Nixon matrix's do not cover these minor variations. Something I noticed about the reference though. It's basically divided into two parts; the first part: Battle Participations of Each Organizations, and the second part: Organizations Participating in Each Major Operation and Sector. Looking at the 53rd Field Artillery Brigade as an example, I see it listed in the first section and showing it was entitled to the Ypres-Lys bar. However, under the second section, the 53rd Field Artillery is not mentioned under the Ypres-Lys campaign. That got me thinking, and I wonder if maybe this is why Laslo removed the matrix after his first edition, because of these inconsistencies in the War Department reference and that a simple matrix could not account for all the possible variations of individual cases and these remaining inconsistencies in the War Department reference. We know they added units, evidenced by the errata pages in the front, but were there more? Anyway, here's an example: Tim

I'll add a couple here to keep it going for a day or two. Here's my first Romanian VIC; finally. Ribbon is shot unfortunately but, the medal is in decent condition and an official version with the designer's name on the reverse. Tim

Ed, There's an interesting thread in the Coins & Commemorative Medaillians Forum on these. Check it out! http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=43508 Tim

Wow! That's a really nice group collection you have there! I especially like the one with the cutout details; really stands out! Thank you for sharing and adding two more types to my list. I think, possibly, that the first one (curved = convex or vaulted?). As this one has no dates, I assume this is the version that is considered the scarcest of the bunch? Tim

Yes, very nice!! Interesting on the reverse attachment setup, as it is the same style I have on this Italian medal bar. Tim

Hi Rob, Sounds good, will wait to see what it looks like. Tim

Hi Timo, Like you, I know next to nothing on these but, there is another thread (9 pages) on these in this section. Also, Bison recently showed this new reference coming out that he also had a hand in: http://editions.pb-co.fr/ Looks interesting! Tim

Thanks for the update! That is good to know information if coming across one. Tim

Hi Rob, Yes, good information on the Revolutionary Medal and I'll have to keep my eye open for that Czech reference. Here's another example of the various attachments to this medal. Note the single Linden Leaf. I assume the device was awarded under similar merits as it was on the War Cross. For a unit citation in an Army Order, a spray of linden leavesFor a unit citation in a Divisional Order, a single linden leafFor an individual citation in an Army Order, a silver starFor an individual citation in a Divisional Order a bronze star. Tim

Hi Darrel, Pretty cool shot! I loved Bellows Beach when I lived on Oahu, we used to camp & BBQ right on the beach and boogie board all day long. Great beach and rec area and most of it was restricted AF Base which kept crowds down to a bare minimum. What are you doing out there? Tim

Hi Rich, On the subject of medal/ribbon bars, I am referring to how they would be worn as a group (medals) and (ribbons). An order of precedence would normally answer the correct order, however it appears that some wore awards out of order. Some examples would be wearing the Rising Sun and Sacred Treasure. Normally, you would see the RS having precedence however, if the member received a higher grade ST, then that was worn in the higher position. What were the rules? I see bars with the campaign ribbons (or medals on a medal bar) that seem to be mounted in various order of precedence. Were they supposed to be worn only a certain way or was there authorized variations here as well? So, in all that, I think most collectors would like a definitive answer when looking at bars to see if they are in fact legit, clearly a "made-up" fantasy piece, or as we see in other military groups, some variation depending on circumstance. Hope that better answers what I meant above. Tim

What about this bar that Timo shows on the first page? Should the Medal for Military Merit have the small wreath on it, or should it be a palm device? Kevin posted a page out of a printed reference on Greeks awards (different thread) and according to that, the palm is the appropriate device for ribbon bars. Could this small wreath actually belong to a "mini" medal? Trying to learn! Tim

Good to know and nice to see more collectors joining in here! Tim

Here's my three Czech Victory Medals. All are marked O. Spaniel with some variations in ribbons. Tim

Here's my Revolutionary Medal. It's really a nice, solid strike and makes me think there are more than one maker for these, as some appear weaker in details. I still need to find some examples with the various ribbon attachments (unit citations, regiment #'s, and action/battle bars). Tim

I noticed in post #12, that you show a WWII Medal for Gallantry with two gilt Linden Leave attachments. I think the WWI devices were only in bronze however, I have noticed an example with gilt leaves and wondered if it was the wrong attachment placed on this example, or if maybe these came in different colors denoting different levels of award similar to the palm/star attachments we see on the French and Belgian Croix de Guerre. Do you know for sure? I personally think it was only bronze for the WWI pieces and this one is wrong, but the size appears correct to the medal. Tim

Hello Ladis, I only have a few Czech awards, mostly the WW1 Victory Medals, but I'll post a couple others here for show as well. Here's my War Cross with the bronze "splay of Linden Leaves" attachment. I understand this denoted a unit citation at the Army level. Tim

Hi Rich, I'm sure you have more than enough to research and the book would only grow with more material. I might add some infomation on the cases, lettering styles and the period differences between them. Also, the small rosette/bows for the lapel devices that came with these awards. One area and probably something better left for a separate book, would be the subject of medal and ribbon bars. I see so many that appear genuine but the combinations and bar placements are all over the place, I couldn't tell if something was original or made up yesterday. That, for me, is a very confusing area that I wish I had a good reference on. Good luck! Tim

Boy, you got me there, neither have I. Sure looks nice from the front side. The motto is slightly different font and the screw disc has markings on it that might allude to a maker. Were these made by more than one manufacturer? When did they stop making them? Tim

Very nice! I am still planning to add one to my collection one day. Tim

Kevin, A few questions here; on the list you show in the book, are they numbered in any specific order? Like first or oldest, to latest example? I note there is no 112.01 shown and I am curious to know where the example with the designer & sculptor's name is, as I do not see it listed. That brings me to the next question. Is Sue and Rivaud the first known variety, as I have heard they were the two soldiers that first came up with the design? Tim

That's good to know about the old OMSA articles. I had seen an ebay seller that recently had several of these older ('70's era) magazine lots offered for auction dirt cheap, but they were hit or miss of which ones he had and it always seemed the ones I were after were missing from the group. Looking at the site, I do not see where it shows what magazines and what contents are available. Do you have to be a member to view this? Thanks! Tim

Thomas, The thread is Victory Medals in general but, you're correct that there seems to be much more available in single medals than in groups. I think the only exception to that is the British bars, perhaps as the medals were named and people didn't want to separate them. There are some really nice Romanian groups on the market as well, never cheap but often loaded with a variety of decent conditioned awards. I hope they do not get broken up if that is what happened to other like items. Most of the US VIC's I see are single pieces, or in a group of single items and you can never be 100% if the grouping is original to each other. Personally, I like the singles but have some small bars as well. Anyway, post what you got, I'm sure everybody here would love to see someone else's stuff for a change! Rob, As always, beautiful!! Tim