hucks216

Edit: Information found after someone pointed out that it is Ernst Maisel, rather than Meisel.

Hello all, Does anyone have any information - or have actually heard of - a Generalleutnant Meisel during WW2, possibly with a link to the OKH? There is a March '45 dated EK I citation signed by him in Forman Third Reich Docs vol 1 and I have found another March '45 dated citation (EK II this time) with his signature on it but I have not been able to find any definite references to him. A Google search has one very brief reference to a General Meisel in a subject under the headline The German Army Confronts The NSFO when it returns the answers to my search request but the actual site doesn't mention him in the one page it publishes on the web for free. I have Wolf Keilig's 'Die Generale Des Heeres' but he isn't mentioned in it and he isn't on the Axis Biographical Research website. I know there was an Admiral Meisel but the one I seek was a Generalleutnant in March 1945. Any information, or pointers, is much appreciated.

I know that during the last Gulf War one of the 'S' boats (possibly HMS Sceptre) transitted via the Suez Canal, HMS Somerset providing close protection, but I can't remember if it was after she was 'empty' and going home or if she was 'full' and heading there in the first place. There is a photo of the 2 together somewhere.

The Feldpost Number at the top of the Wound Badge In Black citation indicates... 25869 (Mobilmachung-1.1.1940) 3. Räumbootsflottille, (2.1.1940-27.4.1940) 3. Räumbootsflottillen-Kommando. ...with information on that particular flotilla here... http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Sicherungsflott/RFlot.htm

Looking at the date on the EK II citation he might of been awarded this for the invasion of Norway in April 1940. During that invasion Kondor was part of the Blucher group which consisted of Blucher, Lutzow, Emden, Kondor, Albatross & Mowe for the landings at Oslo which saw the Blucher sunk by shore batteries. Kondor carried approx 100 soldiers for the operation. Whether he was awarded the medal for something he did or as just part of an allocation to the Kriegsmarine is anybodies guess.

Very nice set - I do like these type of citations for the Destroyer (and Schnellboot) Badges. And a good signature to find on the EK citation - Admiral Lutjens of later Bismarck 'fame'.

HMS Opossum & HMS Otus... In May 1991 Opossum followed a while later by sister submarine Otus returned to H.M.S Dolphin from the Gulf in traditional Far East Camouflage colours (black and duck egg blue). Both vessels were flying the Jolly Roger, a symbol of a successful war patrol . It is probable that they had been involved in SAS and SBS reconnaissance operations possibly in preparation for the eventuality of an amphibious assault - the Iraqis feared an amphibious assault and accordingly deployed six divisions. Taken from... http://www.btinternet.com/~warship/Feature/gulf.htm

Yes, UK diesel boats were used to land & recover Special Forces.

Well I think that clears that up with regards to the SA medal. Come to think of it I don't know why I didn't just ask my opposite number at work as he was on the Ardent during the conflict!

There's a Norwegian based member here called Simon Orchard who is very knowledgable about citations (and WW2 in Norway) who might be able to give you a definite answer on this citation.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your interest in this particular citation? Is it to a unit you collect? I don't see anything special about this citation (if original) so you wouldn't be losing out if you left it alone and looked for another one. But I will say this - you posted the photo of the citation for a reason and if that reason was a result of a gut feeling that all may not be as it seems then all I can say is trust that feeling. If you lose out on it then at least you still have your money to spend on something else, but if you went for it and it proves to be fake then you might have a struggle to get your money back depending on the decency of the seller and you are left with basically waste paper. Nothing beats doing the research but trust your instincts as well.

I think you will need better photos of the signature & stamp before it is possible for someone to be able to offer a verdict. I have had a look through all the EK citations in my collection and at numerous others on other forums and they all bear the stamp of the parent unit, i.e. Infantry Division, Kampfgeschwader, Armeekorps etc. I believe a regimental commander did not have the authority to sign EK citations and while this bears the signature of the Divisional Commander (or claims to, as I don't have a sample of Rudolf Dinter's signature to compare it to) why does it have a stamp of the Regiment? I may well be wrong & there may be exceptions to the rule but I would personally play safe and look elsewhere, certainly without better photos.

Can you post a close up of the signature & stamp please.

Mine doesn't - it just lists my rank, name, service number & RN. I wonder if it was an old practice where the ship was named on a LS&GC medal but after a certain date it was changed to just RN?

Is there an image of the edging showing the inscription? While I agree with the inscription showing his rank, name and service number (although the first digit should be a D rather than a 0) are you sure the bit mentioning HMS Spartan wasn't just added to the item description to indicate what he served on at the time? I've looked at my father's 3 Royal Navy medals from the early 50's and they all have his rank, name, service number & RN around the edge, and the 4 medals I have been awarded from 1988 to present day all show my rank, trade, name, service number & RN. There may well be a seperate ruling for submariners but as I don't know that many, having always served on ships, I can't confrim one way or the other but I would of thought that the medals would all indicate RN (or RM) rather than actual unit.

All RN medals have the rank, name, service number & RN inscribed around the rim. The only one that doesn't is the Golden Jubilee medal which is blank.

My dad's medals and a photo from one of his photo albums showing shell damage from a Communist coastal battery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knacker

Due to the time frame I would expect the list of ships involved in the Malayan Emergency to be quite long. My father served onboard one ship during the Emergency, both at sea and also as a member of an IS Platoon in the area of Ipoh (I believe). You may well get the information you seek at the following forum... http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/index.php

I can't find any other source that mentions this officer as having received the DKiG. He isn't listed in the Ordenstrager records although I can not check my DKiG books as I don't have them here with me and his entry on www.ww2awards.com states that this piece of paper is the only source they have for the possible awarding of the DKiG. The FpNr on the stamp, and related to the date, is for... (8.9.1943-22.4.1944) 7.2.1944 Luftflottenkommando Reich ...and Generaloberst Stumpff's last 3 appointments were... Luftwaffe-Commander Centre (06 Jan 1944-08 Feb 1944) Commander-in-Chief of Air-Fleet Reich (09 Feb 1944-08 May 1945) Chief Of The General Staff of the Luftwaffe and Acting-Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe (08 May 1945-23 May 1945)

Hello Alec, Nice little grouping. I have done a little bit of digging and posted the info earlier today over on the WWM post. Basically it looks like this soldier was KIA in Romania in September 1944.

Final pic - his fate...

Training...

Units...

I have just acquired a wehrpass to a member of a Streifendienst unit, but he was subsequently killed while part of a train escort unit (the train he was on was blown up by a mine) and I was just wondering if such units came under the remit of the Streifendienst or would the Zugwach-Abt z.b.V be an entirely seperate entity....