The Prussian

Hi Glenn! Which copies do you have before 1880 please?

Hello! Prussian rank lists have existed since at least 1713, and from 1785 they were published annually until 1806. After that, as a result of the lost war of 1806, there were initially no more rank lists, but at least in 1808 and 1812 they were compiled in manuscript and more recently published as facsimile prints by the Military History Research Office. Furthermore, a ranking list for 1806 was published in two editions in 1828, supplemented by "Nachrichten über das nachherige Verhältnis der darin aufgeführten Officiere und Militair-Beamten" and in 1835 by a list of names. Regularly published annual rank lists again starting in 1817, they contain the entire peacetime division of the Prussian army with all formations and services as well as their staffing with officers and higher military officials, usually with the status as of spring of each year. An addendum contains changes up to the time of printing. Under each formation/service, personnel changes that have occurred since the last ranking was published and the reason for those changes are listed. The full title of the rank lists is "Rank and Quarter List of the Royal Prussian Army for the Year...". Individuals are listed by rank and surname, unfortunately first names are missing. If there are several persons of the same rank with the same surname in a formation, they are distinguished as "the 1st", "the 2nd", etc. It is only from 1897 that the first name is mentioned instead in these cases. In the years 1870 and 1876 no ranking lists appeared. In 1890, 1893, 1900, 1912, and 1913, each of which had extensive October 1 reappointments, there is an additional ranking list covering only the active duty ranks with October 1 appointments. The last peacetime ranking list appeared in the spring of 1914, after which publication ceased for the duration of World War 1. Furthermore, the Prussian rank lists show: from 1830 a list of names from 1843 onwards, lists of ranks, but from 1853 onwards only including generals and staff officers from 1850 also the (still very small) navy until 1873, after which its personnel was listed as imperial troops in a separate ranking list from 1868 also the officers and senior officers of the non-Prussian troops of the North German Confederation (except Saxony and Brunswick, Brunswick only from 1887) from 1895 also the Württemberg troops and services, the title is now: "Rang- und Quartierliste der Königlich Preußischen Armee und des XIII. (Königlich Württembergischen) Armeekorps für das Jahr..." (List of ranks and quarters of the Royal Prussian Army and the XIII. (Royal Württemberg) Army Corps for the year...") from 1897 the Schutztruppen from Oct. 1900 the Marine Infantry and for the period of its existence the East Asian Expeditionary Corps, furthermore from each officer the date of his last patent. The title is now: "Rank List..." instead of "Rank and Quarter List...". Beginning in 1903, Landwehr districts are listed in alphabetical order rather than regionally within their Army Corps. The last peacetime rank list appeared in May 1914; there were no rank lists in World War 1, if only for reasons of secrecy. In 1926, the German Officers' Association published an "Honorary Ranking List of the German Army", which, however, only contains all active officers and higher military officials who received their patent until the end of World War 1. This ranking lists Prussian and Württemberg officers as well as Bavarian and Saxon officers. Prussian reserve and Landwehr officers, if they fell, are included in Uebe's work "Ehrenmal des preußischen Offizierskorps" published in 1939. In addition to the rank lists, there were seniority lists published annually since about 1855, listing the active Prussian (and from 1897 also the Württemberg) officers with all patent awards. These seniority lists were still published during World War I. Bavaria: The compilations corresponding to the Prussian rank lists were called "Military Handbook of the Kingdom of Bavaria", a first handbook (still under the title "Rank List") was published in 1811, the following editions from 1831 onwards in about two-year intervals, the last one in spring 1914. The military handbooks are structured similarly to the Prussian rank lists, additionally contain an extensive genealogy of the ruling dynasty and also the first names of all persons mentioned, furthermore also still living officers a. D., list of names of all (also deceased) holders of the Military Order of Max Joseph and the Military Medal of Honor, a list of campaigns of the Bavarian Army and a short history of its formations. Army and a short history of its formations and services. In addition, there were annually published "rank lists", which corresponded in content to the Prussian "seniority lists". Saxony: Rank lists of the Saxon army existed from 1807 at the latest, until 1849 they were called "Stamm- und Rangliste der Königl. Sächs. Armee vom Jahre...", from 1850 only "Rangliste...". In terms of structure and scope, they resemble mutatis mutandis the military handbooks for the Kingdom of Bavaria. They were published annually, the last time in 1914, and reflect the status as of January of the respective year of publication.

Thanks a lot! And what about the rank insignia? Full uniform = Shoulder boards, service uniform = chevrons?

Hello! I can add three photos with v. Hutier:

Thanks a lot, mate!!!! So I assume, he had red piped, black cuffs (Savoia). Probably a Captain, who visited the town. I ordered the book "Le prime uniformi dell´esercito italiano". In that book I found this painting of "Brigata Savoia" Could it fit?

No problem, mate! Thanks a lot in advance!

Ah, ok, Thanks a lot! Now I´d like to know which units were in Verona around 1870...

Are those colours right? http://marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info/SardinianInfUnif.html So, he could have a black collar, red piped. Savoia or Pinerolo? But the cuffs would be dark blue, instead of black. What do you mean?

Hello! Thanks a lot! Great infos!!!!! Do you know, which units were in Verona around 1871? Did the collar colours change after 1871/72?

Hello! Here I have an older picture of an Italian soldier. Brief background: In 1866, besides the German-Austrian War, the Italian-Austrian War also took place. Through the mediation of Napoleon III, a military alliance treaty was signed between Italy and the German Empire on 8 April 1866. In short, Austria lost the war and with it some parts of the country, such as Verona, which in 1866 went to the young Italian Kingdom (since 1861). Unfortunately, I am not that familiar with the old Italian uniforms. The French cuffs and commemorative medal for the unity of Italy are striking here. https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaglia_commemorativa_dell'Unità_d'Italia Any ideas of the uniform, plese? I think, it´s a Sergeant (or officer) during the occupation of Verona between 1866 and 1870. By the way. This link: http://www.esercito.difesa.it/comunicazione/editoria/Editoria-filatelia-e-numismatica/Fastweb/Pagine/LEsercito-Italiano-nella-Grande-Guerra-1915-18.aspx doesn´t work anymore. Did someone download the books and is able to send the files to me? That would be wonderful!!!!! Thanks a lot!

Hello! That´s strange. Fußart.Bttr.272 was formed by IX.Res.Korps. He shouldn´t wear Guard-Litzen..

Great cards, Chris!!!!!!

Hello Johan! I´m glad I could help you! Ranklist entries: 1910: same regiment, same medals, but commanded to the legacy (embassy) Stockholm 1909: " 1908: " 1907: " 1906: 6./Feldart.Rgt. 72, no medals 1905: same regiment, commanded to War Academy 1904: Lieutenant (Patent 18.8.94), same regiment, commanded to War Academy 1903: 4./Feldart.Rgt. 72 1902: same regiment, commanded to War Academy 1901: 5./Feldart.Rgt. 72 1900: 2./Feldart.Rgt. 72 1899: 9./Feldart.Rgt. 36 1898: 4./Feldart.Rgt. 36 1897: " 1896: " 1895: 3./Feldart.Rgt. 36

Hello Johan! His last ranklist entry is from 1911. (May 1) Oberleutnant (First Lieutetant) Frahne (4th Battery/Feldart.Rgt.72) Medals: KO4 (prussian Order of the crown, 4th class) BZ3b (Baden, order of Zähriner Löwen, knight-cross 2nd class) SS3b (Knight cross of sword knight) Patent for the rank Oberleutnant 15.9.04 1912 granted the leave with pension as Hauptmann (captain) No entry in the ranklist of honour, so he was not reactivated in the war.

Sounds good! Very possible!

Hello! Oh yes, it looks very similar! Probably the badge was made by Fokker?

Hello! Well, 72 was stationed in: Großenhain, Blaise, Leffincourt, Carrepuis, Bergnicourt, Thin-le-Montier 73 in: Halle/Saale, Mars-sous-Bourcq, St.Rémy-le-Petit, St.Loup-en-Champagne, Thin-le-Montier, Halma 74 in: Altenburg, Bergniecourt, St.Loup-en-Champagne, Pont Faveger, St.Loup-en-Champagne, Preutin. You see, no match for all units. And I think, the sign means all three units. If not, they would have used a comma instead of a hyphen. I don´t believe it´s a piece of the war-time or the early 20s. Probably of the 30s

I remember, Ömmes told me, he served with the 2.BEP, and then he was part of a heavy mortar company. He showed me this well-known photo, which was published in several books and told me the half-naked man was him: Of course I didn´t believe that, but the same day I visited him at his home and he showed me a couple of original photos, showing the same scene, each one taken from another angle, because the photographer did take a couple of photos. One of them shows that man with a visible face, and he told me he received those photos later when he returned to France. On the reverse was his name written. I don´t know, if I can believe that story, because only 17 men of that company would return from captivity. http://foreignlegion.info/units/1cepml/ I can´t remember all of the stories he told, because it was in the 90s, but anyway this one a nice story while we had a couple of beers and Ricards. I won´t forget that guy, although his "sober-times" were pretty rare...

960km too far away. That doesn't fit to my friend Ömmes... I didn´t read Lodz before. What does "Département" means in this case? In 1930 and 1956, Lodz belonged to Poland... Thanks, Chris

Wow! What a great found!!!!! He served with different regiments of the LE. Unfortunately the place of birth will be unknown. A friend of mine was in the Légion too (I met him in our local pub in the 90s), his name was Karl-Heinz, but I don´t know his last name. He always was called "Ömmes". He was called by this nick-name since his time in the LE. He served with 2° BEP in Dien Bien Phu. I visited him once at his flat and he showed me some photos and documents to prove he told the truth. He spoke french too. Unfortunately later he moved into another town and passed away a few years ago. I must say, that I can´t remember the photos, to compare them with your photos.

In Germany Karl-Heinz written with the hyphen is one name. Sometimes written as Karlheinz too. But probably the French administration didn't know that.

Great! Maybe insignia from a german Légionnaire? The letter K is untypical for non-german first names. K-H. = Karl-Heinz? ?

Hello! Of course, a very nice badge! I´ve never seen it before! Eric. You wrote "both", but 72-74 are three units (72, 73 and 74) Unfortunately you are wrong with "saxon" (for all units). Jasta 72: Saxon (formed Feb.11, 1918 at FEA 6, Großenhain) Jasta 73: Prussian (formed Feb.11, 1918 at FEA 14, Halle/Saale) Jasta 74: Prussian (formed Feb.16, 1918 at FEA 1, Altenburg) Those three Jastas had never been stationed together on a common airfield. They were under command of different armies, but together under the 1st Army they were: 72: Jul.7, 1918-Nov.11, 1918 73: May 21, 1918-Nov.11, 1918 74: Feb.16, 1918-Sep.15, 1918 So all unites together were in the 1st Army between July and September 1918. That´s the only connection I recognize between those Jastas. So, I assume, it´s a Commemorative Badge for the service in the 1st Army between July and September 1918. I don´think, it´s an Austrian one, because they didn´t had the designation "Jagdstaffel" https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.u.k._Luftfahrtruppen

Hi! Probably a unit with the number 7, that was mentioned honourable 4-5 times in the order of the army (Yellow-green Fourragère)

Hi Glenn! Thanks a lot! And who do we see in the photo? Koch or Rath? I don´t understand the Ehrenrangliste. If he was promoted to GM in 1916, he should have been listed in "Wiederverwendete Offiziere Oberst a.D", shouldn´t he? v. Rath became Oberst January 27, 1915 Koch became GM a.D. in 1916. So the photo musthave been taken just before he received that rank, because it´s "1914-1916"