peter monahan

Sounds good to me! Are the Rainbow Girls in any way masonic related or did they just ahppen on the clasped hand emblem? There are or were apparently dozens of groups with more or less tenuous links to various branches of the noble craft and even more people making badges etc to sell to them. Remember that afiliation brooches and watch fobs were ubiquitous in the late 18th, early 19th Centuries: lodges, church groups, clubs, fraternities etc etc. P

That would be great! P

I stand corrected, gentlemen! Sounds as if Renwax is great stuff! "Chemically pure" is good! See below. It occurred to me after I wrote re beeswax that it probably has trace elements of pollen init and in some distant future an eager archaeologist will find 21st century pollen traces on 19th century military artifacts and construct all manner of fantastic theories!

Not a city, but the Island of Malta got the George Cross, the non-combat equivalent to the VC, for its behaviour during WWII, particularly its steadfastness during the Axis bombing raids early in the war. The GC now features on the flag of the island nation! Peter

Here's the distyilled wisdom of the extensive course - 3 Whole Days - I took last year from the Ontario Museum Association: never pt anything onto an artifact you don't know you can take off. That's capital "N" "Never" ! Pure beeswax is 1st choice: almost chemically inert, protects, comes off, etc. NO neatsfoot oil on leather!!! (U can't put the natural oil back into leather any more than you can make seasoned wood into green timber again by adding water. All you get is hard oily leather. Again, beeswax is the key and I'll bet if you check the 100 Euro a bottle "museum stuff" you'll find it's mostly beeswax with enoguh of something else to justify slapping a brand name on it. My "quarter"'s worth.

Yank Kev could be right, though the peak is odd for air crew - precludes googles or face mask one would think. Meant for waist gunners on B-25,s and so on, who stood by open "windows" while in flight? The british maker is odd too, for a Yank item. Try Googling shots of US troops - tankers maybe? - and air crews. If it was standard issue it should show up round someones neck or on his head in some shot or other. Other possibility: a "present" for "our boys at the Front", produced on civvie street and sent of with the care packages. I'd have worn one in North-West Europe in winter '44-'45. Heck, I'd wear one now up here in the Frozen North. Gotta go. Huskies to feed! Peter

If you want to define "campaign" taht way, any of the several Naval General Service Medals had bars for single ship and small boat actions, some of which lasted mere minutes. For example, the bar "Tigress and Scorpion" to the 1793 NGS covers the capture of 2 US schooners in Cdn waters in 1813. Neither action - boarding from small boats and canoes - lasted any more than 10 minutes! ( BTW, the sole recipient of this bar was a Lt Andrew Bulger of the Royal Newfoundland Fencible infantry. I have the honour to be Sergeant Commanding, Bulger's Company, R Nfld Reg't military re-enactment group.) There appears to be no bar for "Zanzibar" to any British medal, using the index of Gordon's British battles and Medals, 4th edition as my source. It does say, however, that the "Ashanti Star 1896 (7th December, 1895 - 17th January, 1796) was acawarded to the 2nd Yorkshires, a composite battalion of Foot Guards, some odds and sods from various infantry units, the RA, A.M.C., and Ordnance STaff Corps & 3 nrsing sisters. Sounds pretty short to me!

The fact that it is webbing and not leather makes it more likely to be post - war rather than WWI, though that's not a certainty. however, the fact that it has snap closings on the pouches rather than tabs and studs or buckles suggests veryt strongly to me that it is from the 1930's or later. the colour seems wrong for US - who tended to go green rather than khaki, but check some shots of WWII Us webbing fr comparison. Good luck. peter

Ed Many many years ago (when Michael Johnson and I were founding the "Indian Military Collectors Society, which still exists, I believe) I had a brief correspondence with an American gentleman. He was then stationed in Rome with the US Foreign Service (wring term?) but had been in Pakistan for some years. He recounted how his first trip to the Peshwar and Rawalpindi bazzars produced "Indian medals" by the kilo many of which, he said, were being busily converted into "ankle bracelets for dancing girls" (never forgot the phrase). However, on his next visit, a decade later, after being re-posted, he said that he asked a very small trader the price of a medal and had the man whip out a Sotheby's "Prices Realized" from under the rug which was his shop! The details may be apocryphal but not, I suspect, the general truth. I know that here in Ontario at least, over the last decade or so practically every item of militaria or medals I see in a flea market or generalist antique store is overpriced. The dealers have apparently decided that "miltary = rare = expensive" and without bothering to check have slapped ludicrous prices on most everything. A case of ignorance on the buyers part NOT helping the informed buyer! Peter

Kevin A US masonic museum (see http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseu...m/foresters.htm ) refers to the IOF, so there seems to be a relationship of some sort. There's even a Catholic branch! (Oh, those Catlicks ) P

The only abbreviations on this badge that I could find anything on were COCF. Which might mean Canadian Order of Chosen Friends. Kevin Try Googling "The Independant Order of Foresters". This group began in 1874 as an American fraternal order somehow related to the English "Ancient Order of Foresters". Then in 1876 a Canadian branch declared themselves "Independent..." and set up as both a fraternal order and an insurance company, which company still exists. The motto would fit the IOF, thought the clasped hands symbol is, I believe, Masonic. It appears on a lot of tombstones in 19th century cemeteries (at least in my very limited knowledge of southern Ontario cemeteries) Hope this helps. Peter

As I recall, one of the British newspapers, in collaboration with a service institution, did something similar years ago: a "collector" mount and badges of all the "amalgamated" British regiments (after the first round in the '70's) Unfortunately the quality was ghastly - "gilded" and "silvered" plastic, even worse quality than the cheap "Staybrite" badges the poor squaddies had to wear ! These sets still turn up from time to time at flea markets over here (Canada) but, of course, invariably with a few badges missing! A nice idea if done properly but rarely execurted properly. Peter

Tony wrote " I asked what she thought may have been kept inside and she said it looks like the kind of stupid birthday present a bloke would buy for his wife and he then probably kept his cigarettes inside. This was said before knowing what you suggested Kev. " Tony I'll bet yr wife has it spot on. Reminds me of the year I bought the wife a power drill for Xmas. No comment from her but the next year I got a lovely little black cocktail dress in my stocking! Sure looks like a "guy present" to me! Spurs sound good, or mechanical pencils or even test tubes of moustache wax and pomade. Neat, in a morbid sort of way: "I love my horse so much I'm going to keep part of him with me always." Though I seem to recall that one of the Britsh cavalry regiments keep/kept a snuff box in the mess made from the hoof of the drum horse or a famous charger. The Scots Greys and one of the horses riden at Waterloo? Rick would know.

And an infantry reg't were "The Steelbacks" 'cause they were flogged so often; The 1st Foot (Royal Scots) were "pontius Pilates Bodyguard - did I say this? - 'cause they were so old. The Connaught Rangers - "The Devil's Own" for their fighting prowess on and off the battlefield. Don't have the books in front of me, but 18th & 19th C Br regiments ALL had nciknames, if only the old "colonel's title" "Barrell's Blues", for eg. (fought at Culloden, don't recall which "Foot") Kipling referes to a unit as "THe Holy Christians" as they'd been on home service so long - a dig at the Guards, I think. Peter

Graham Stewart said "I've tried looking for a site dedicated to the Imperial Police, but have been unable to find one dedicated to it. Does anyone know if one exists?" Graham Having had experiences looking for similarly obscure stuff on the web - not this admittedly - and considering myself a reasonably capable searcher, my quick, shoot from the lip response is "If it ain't here, it ain't anywheres." "If Ed doesn't know, it ain't to be known." would be a rider Having said that, however, I'll poke about in the police collectors sub-world and see if I can scare something up.

Ed At the risk of sounding petty / officious / etc, can I hope that a Kampuchean forum would come with the same kind of disclaimer as is common for TR stuff? Something along these lines, maybe: "The fact that we collect their medals and awards does not mean that we in any way endorse the activities of these murderous b***ards". Sorry, sermon over. Respectfully, Peter

I notice a number of the shots show what appear to be 2 holes on one face, near the suspension. "Wear marks", I suppose, as opposed to poor casting ? Don't know why you'd be suspicious, Dan. I know absolutely nothing about EK's but I'd buy this one: it's "rare". After all, if this were exactly what you were looking for, it would be d**n hard to find, wouldn't it? Peter

I've seen Michael's set and the cap badge does look spot-on for indian police. I know nothing about police ranks. A Prussian order sounds unlikely for a British colonial policeman but stranger things happen. I posted a while back in another forum about a WWI group I once owned to a Captain Branfoot, 37th Lancers, IA which included a Rumanian Order of the Crown which he was awarded for WWI service, though he was never within 100 miles of Rumania. Apparently the decoration "came round with the rations" one Christmas: sent to the War Office by the Rumanians to give out as the WO saw fit, which in this case apparently meant to an officer who didn'tquite qualify for an MC. Or so the seller told me, having heard the story from his neighbour, who'd served with "Branny". [branfoot was quite touchy about it too, we're told. ] P

Vince Unfortunately, Ed is right. Unnamed minatures can be to whoever one wants them to be too, provided the accompanying story is good enough for the intended audience. Not worth a lot of money, but if it has provenance (you know and trust the seller/owner, whose family has had it since...?) then an amusing puzzle to pursue. This group has, as far as I can tell from the photo, what might be the badge of a Commander of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem after the VC, three WWI medals, George V's 1935 Silver Jubilee & George VI's 1937 Coronation and the St John of Jerusalem Service Medal. So: a VC won in WWI, the recipient still alive (but almost certainly not a soldier) as late as 1937. In addition he would have risen, if the two St. John's gongs are correct, fairly high up in that organization. The Service Medal could be earned for "conspicicuos service to the [british] Grand Priory, and for 15 years efficient service in the st john's Ambulance Brigade." (H. Tapprel Dorling, Ribbons and Medals. Not clear to me whether or not the "and" in that quotation actually means "and / or". The Commander's badge, if that's what it is would presumably be for even further distinguished service to the Brigade and Order. [i'm not up on these - the ribbon is correct for OofSJJ but the badge should be white and silver, not black. Maybe the light in the photo?] Not sure whether or not the grand Priory in GB could give you info. on possible recipients of this combination. Again, assuming it's not just a fantasy group!. For what it's worth! peter

D'OOh! And here I was thinking "Can't mean Chimney sweep. Maybe its "Chemindar" or "Chaprassi" or summat! P

Ed " CHM" = what rank / trade? I don't know all the Indian ranks but can usually figure them out. This one has me confuzzled ! Peter

Order of El Rafidan 3rd Class, Order of the Star of Ethiopia 3rd Class, Transjordan Order of El Nahda 3rd Class. Entitled to CMG (1934), KCMG (1939), Order of El Rafidan 3rd cl Commander (Iraq) 1933, Order of the Brilliant Star of Zanzibar 4th cl 1929, Order of the Star of Ethiopia 3rd Cl Commander 1932, Camp Commandant (DAAG) Supreme War Council, Versailles, 1917-18; DAAG&QMG Peace Conference, Paris, 1918-20; Fascinating CV ! What do you suppose he did (at Versaille, as a "base wallah" ?) to impress the Ethiopians, Iraqis, Zanzibarians AND the Jordanians? Something secret and important for the Adjutant General's dept. - espionage, liason and diplomacy - or merely getting in the right kind of rations for some distinguished peace delegations? I'm guessing that the MBE and KCMG make the former more likely than the latter. This is the kind of group that often have really neat stories behind them!

Shabash, huzoor! (Well done! ) Now that's obscureinformation to be carrying around in your head! We're either very very educated or we need to get real lives. Sorta like billiards: everyone should know how to play but being good at it is one sign of a mis-spent youth! P

Oh, Duh! Sorry, it's late here and it's been a long day! "I knew that. Really!" Here's my last kick at this can: some info on these rifles, which are very probably Lee Metfords rather than Lee Enfields. The first quote explains the difference and where they fit in to S.A. Military history, the second site suggests how common they likely were and who may have used them: GENERALLY: The Lee-Metford, entering service at the very end of the black powder era, is the most modern military rifle that was ever built to use black powder. In fact, like the M1888 Austrian Mannlicher, it was developed as the search for a suitable smokeless propellant was going on in Britain and all across Europe. The Lee-Metford is a box mgazine fed, rear-locking, bolt action repeating rifle in the classic British .303 calibre, but loaded at the time of its adoption with black powder. A smokeless cartridge was introduced in the early 1890s and Enfield rifling began to replace Metford with the adoption of the Lee-Enfield in 1895. The Lee was designed by James Paris Lee of Illion, New York (the city of Remington fame) and substantially improved and perfected at Enfield. It utilized a box magazine system also developed by Lee coupled with a barrel and rifling system invented by William E. Metford. The Lee/Metford/Enfield combination began the long line of successful rifles (substituting Enfield rifling when Metford rifling was unable to tolerate the later smokeless cartridge heat and pressures) for Britain, continuing into the 1990s. The period of the Lee-Metford magazine rifle, adopted in 1888, overlapped the service life of the last of the Martini-Henrys, the Mark IVs. In the late 1880s the British were studying repeating rifles as well as searching for improvements to the entrenched Martini-Henry. This led to the adoption, perhaps prematurely, of the .402 Martini-Enfield in 1886 and an "improved" version, more like the Martini-Henry, in 1887. But the soon expected Lee-Metford, in .303 calibre, would have created logistical nightmares, thus the Martini-Enfields were withdrawn and the bulk of them converted to Martini-Henry Mark IVs. The most notable feature of the then very modern Lee-Metford was it's detachable box magazine which could be loaded, either detached or mounted, initially with up to 8 cartridges (The Mark I and Mark I*) and later with as many as 10 (the Mark II). The Mark II* (not shown) is Britain's first purpose-built smokeless powder rifle and is essentially the Lee-Metford with Enfield designed rifling, thus the "Lee-Enfield" of world-over fame. from: http://www.militaryrifles.com/Britain/Metford.htm AND http://library.thinkquest.org/26852/logistics/lee%20metford.htm This site refers to the vast numbers of Lee Metfords and Lee Enfields which were sent to S.A. between 1895 & 1900 and how they may been used, and by whom, after the Boer War

" I had another look at the rifle in question and on the other side of the rifle is a stamp from 1909. I guess it was updated or fixed? " edit: I just had a closer look and the barrel has several "ER" markings so I'm guessing that the barrel was replaced. Many years since I've really known this stuff in detail, and no books to check, but, yes , I'd guess that the "1909" stamp and the "crossed II" are related: the Mk II was modified, re-barrelled or summat in 1909. Not sure what to make of "ER" except that it's unlikely to stand for "Elizabeth Regina" ! More likely it means "Enfield Rifle" or "Enfield R..."?? There are some very good books out there on the Lee Enfield, with all it's marks, though, so if you care you can probably find some more info. I'd be surprised if the Union forces weren't using Lee Enfields through and after WWI and any "old rifles" probaly went to home guard/teritorials or even cadet corps, so these may have seen lots and lots of service, active and/or peacetime. If your man has a barn full of these then they're probably not worth much except as wallhangers. Does "welded" meaning the breech is closed up? If so then getting the bolt to work, etc is probably not possible. Finding replacement magazines is possible,but might easily cost as much as the rifles cost/are worth - at least over here. On the other hand, they do represent an interesting period in SA history, so if they were mine I'd clean them up and hang one on my wall! But keep in mind that free advice is worth what you pay for it. Peter