peter monahan

Colin Indian made 'tailors' copies' are a subject in themselves. Apparently one can get virtually any medal ever issued to Indian/Pakistani/Gurkha in the tailors shops of the sub-continent, as long as British quality is not an issue. These, as you point out, don't quite make the cut in terms of what we may be used to but have a certain charm of their own, IMHO. And you can't beat the price! Thanks for posting. Peter

Thank you for sharing those, Ilja. I'm sure Megan will add them to her files if she hasn't already done so! Peter

Yeah, I'd have gone with the British design, were I doing it. I'm glad, politics aside, that the vets now feel vindicated, though some of my reservations about motives and revisionism remain. Frank, thanks for posting the two articles I had alluded too but wasn't [whatever] enough to include in my initial post. Peter

N Do you have any other facts, which squadron he was originally from, rank, when he joined or any such? It might help one of our 'pros' tease out a bit more information for you. Peter

Rick 14 vets were honoured. One pointed out that most of his mates had died already. I agree with your assessment of the motives behind this particular action now. Plus, free brownie points and possibly votes for the current regime, which doesn't even describe itself as the 'Government of Canada' but the 'Conservative government'.

Reprehensible and alarming but, sadly, hardly surprising. Tribalism, however one defines one's tribe, seems to be one of the enduring legacies of the human story. Right now in our francophone province of Quebec, the premier, a nationalist, has introduced a widely popular bill. A Charter of Quebec [secular] Values will ban the wearing of religious symbols in any government funded workplace. To quote today's Toronto Star, "veils, kippahs, turbans and even crucifixes". Emphasis mine. Perhaps needless to say, there is no evidence that such symbols have done any harm beyond bruising the tender feelings of a few 'pur laine' Quebecois. Ironically, though Quebec refused to endorse the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms in 1982, it had in fact passed its own charter in 1975 which guaranteed both freedom of religion and expression! Sorry, didn't mean to go all political, but the consistently low standards to which most societies hold themselves continues to depress me. When I'm Emperor of the Galaxy, things will be better! Peter

Blueman What is it that makes you call this 'sea service'? I'm not an expert on the bayonets, though Napoleonic is one of my areas of interest - I re-enact War of 1812. The "RMLA" has me puzzled, though [Company] E, no. 2 is a really nice marking. Peter

According to the front page my morning newspaper - the Toronto Star - the first bars were officially presented over the weekend to Canadian Bomber Command veterans. Unfortunately, in my view, the major focus of the article is the way in which the Bomber Command in particular and RAF and FCAF in general have been slighted over the years: "Due to controversy surrounding heavy civilian casualties from bombing, the bomber command was never formally recognized. Now, as many of them enter their nineties, they’re set to receive a special bar commemorating their work." [http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/08/25/world_war_ii_bombers_to_be_honoured_70_years_later.html] Bomber Command had, I think, the highest casualty rate of any service in WWII except perhaps the Kreigsmarine U-boat service. I also know that "Bomber" Harris was the only major British war time leader not to be honoured with a title after the war, as a direct result of the civilian casualties and, perhaps, the bombing of Dresden. As a friend pointed out, if he had been a German we'd have tried him for war crimes! Not arguing it wasn't necessary in the new 'total war' but a serious embarrassment afterwards. My question, and its a genuine one, is twofold: have the Bomber Command men been cheated of real recognition all these years and is this a solution? I think many would argue, and I tend that way myself, that lots of men had a hard hard war and that the intent of the medals, including the CVSM, is to recognize everyone who volunteered/fought. Once we go down the 'bar' route, where does it end? Dieppe? St Nazaire? Atlantic Convoys? Secondly, and equally important, is the 'lack of respect/recognition' a real and serious issue or a piece of politically correct revisionism? Comments or brickbats? Peter

April 15, 2013 Ottawa – The Honourable Steven Blaney, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Minister for La Francophonie, and the Honourable Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence, today unveiled the new Bomber Command honour, in the form of a bar to be worn on the ribbon of the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal (CVSM), and announced that applications are now officially being accepted for this honour. "Our Government announced its intention to create a Bomber Command honour, and we are now pleased to unveil this honour today," said Minister Blaney. "With this bar, our Government is honouring those Canadians who fought for peace, freedom and democracy through their service in Bomber Command, and in particular the approximately 10,000 who made the ultimate sacrifice." "Fifty-thousand Canadians defended our commonwealth and our country’s freedoms and values by serving and sacrificing for the greater good through Bomber Command operations," said Minister MacKay. "Our Government, and Canadians across the country, are proud to extend our heartfelt gratitude by acknowledging their selfless efforts with the Bomber Command honour. Lest we forget." The existing Order-in-Council governing the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal has been amended to include the eligibility criteria and the description of the new Bomber Command honour. All Canadian Veterans who were awarded the CVSM and served a minimum of one day with Bomber Command, regardless of rank or role, are eligible for this new bar. Loved ones of a deceased Canadian Bomber Command Veteran who hold the Veteran’s CVSM may also apply to receive this bar. Processing priority will be given to applications received from living Canadian Bomber Command Veterans or their surviving spouses. "The Air Force Association thanks Minister Blaney and the Harper Government for their continued efforts to recognize the sacrifices and contributions of Bomber Command,” noted National President of the Air Force Association of Canada, Colonel (Ret) Terry Chester. “We see this as a significant and memorable step in the recognition of these unsung heroes." The effort of the approximately 50,000 Canadians who served with the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) and the Royal Air Force (RAF) in Bomber Command operations over occupied Europe was one of Canada’s most significant contributions during the Second World War. Some 55,000 Allied airmen would lose their lives in flying accidents, by enemy action in the skies over Europe, or in prisoner of war camps.

Well, they're not making them anymore, so arguably its worth whatever you are willing to pay to own what may well be a unique piece or, at worst, one of less than a half dozen in the world. And I don't use that as a justification for dealers gouging collectors, just as a comment on collecting and collectors. I had a friend who collected to the Royal sussex and would cheerfully have mortgaged his house to get a Sussex VC. Crazy? Not sure.

Me too!

Yes, but only a depressing one!

Would it be fair to describe the post-apartheid South Africa as a 'new nation', with all that implies? Certainly many if not most post-colonial states in Africa, Asia and, I suppose, South America, suffered pretty major 'growing pains' related to both lack of educated, skilled, experienced persons for positions of responsibility plus all the challenges of establishing a system of government and law which is culturally foreign to the vast majority of the population. Never mind the venality, laziness, bloody-mindedness and sheer evil which all systems incorporate to a greater or lesser degree. Hence the need for both robust oversight mechanisms, especially in the courts and policing and also the often scorned 'studies' which flesh out the anecdotal record with the kind of statistics Mervyn provides. Toronto just had a police officer shot a mentally disturbed teenager eight times - nine shots were fired - before the boy was tasered. 15 officers were present, no civilians were in danger and the youth in question was confined on a city bus. The officer in question has no been charged with murder, though is very unlikely to be convicted. All that said, I certainly wouldn't want Canada's police forces to be judged on the basis of that case! Any evidence that the SA Police is trying to or making progress at cleaning up its act?

And I was just getting used to the idea that my youngest, 21 and blonde, would be fine in Cape Town for a year. This isn't helping! Seriously, a stunning and depressing set of statistics. One of the hallmarks of a working society/nation, in my opinion, is a dependable police and court system. If the sheep dogs are preying on the flock, the wolves too will have a field day. People should be able to sleep safe in their beds and walk the streets of their communities without fear. Otherwise, IMHO, whatever the other markers may say, you're dealing with a failed state!

Ah, of course! How silly of me not to have remembered. In the pens next to the yak milking exhibit, no doubt!

Paul I'd buy 'rarely' happened. Not so sure about 'if ever'.

I hadn't considered that it might be new. A plausible theory, especially as awarding it to the Pres. of SA would be a good start to its life as a serious award! Perhaps when Megan gets her head above water she'll chip in with some info. or theories.

I thought the kukri was WWI - the very small handles and slightyly thinner blades on the issue ones from that period are fairly recognizable.

And how, one wonders, did it make its way to Calgary, Alberta, Canada. No there would be a story for the next contest! As far as I know, even at our infamous 'Camp Mirage' - the non-existant Canadian air base in Yemen - the CF never had a Camel Corps. Unlike the US Army! True story - look it up.

Yes, very clearly it did happen, despite the regulations to the contrary which were, obviously, designed to prevent a recipient 'double dipping': being given two service awards for one period of service. Thta's to say, there was nothing wrong with earning a campaign star plus a War Medal plus a Canadian Voluntary Service Medal, for example, as in theory they recognize three separate things, but not overlapping service awards. However, as Brian says, many served in multiple theatres and errors would have been made and very very few would have made the Parasitical decision to 'send one back'. So, they are 'real' groups. I've even seen a group, many years ago, in which were two identical medals to the same man. I can only assume he got two or got one, lost it, got a replacement then found the original. Clearly, though, from the wear on the ribbons, he did wear both! And a suspect his mates at the Legion would have thought it a priceless joke on the base-wallahs at GHQ!

I "Gentlemen" part of our moniker is never so obviously true as in comments like the two above. One of the main reasons I continue to haunt these forums.

I second that comment! In fact, I'm so important - a hero in my own mind - that I'll second AND third it!

And, obviously, the Red Hand of Ulster represents that province, while the three crowns are the emblem of the province of Munster. So, some northern and some southern [Republican] symbols. A curious mix, IMHO.

Somebody missed her humour-ectemy appointment at cop college! Well done, Oz!

The heraldry strongly suggests Ulster to me, but otherwise no real idea. Presumably some sort of exam or competition - perhaps promotion exams?