RobW

Hi Jean-Michel, I have seen these variety of French produced US engagement clasps on occasion; the 'SOMME' example being particularly rare. A good look at your close up pictures indicates the typography on all three of these clasps are somewhat similar in comparing the common letters of 'E', 'S', and 'M'. That may lead to the conclusion they were produced by the same manufacturer; or at the very least had a similar manufacturing template. Looking at the reverse of the bars I would also suggest that the repaired ones previously had the wide back strap, and were thus repaired with the thin rod. I have not yet been able to identify the manufacturer of the examples in my collection but will take on board your suggestion that it is probable the house of Arthus Bertrand.

Hi Jean-Michel, I agree that the very finely detailed drawings of all the different medal varieties, that were illustrated in the various Delande catalogues, are a mixture of clearly duplicated or cast copies of existing models from the different countries that awarded them, or Delande's own version of these models. I would use the following vics as examples: 1. The Delande produced Italian and Great Britain vic are clearly cast copies of these existing authorised models. 2. The Delande produced Czech, Portugal, Greek and US models have somewhat different design features. Your Greek vic example is clearly a cast copy of an existing Delande produced variety with a nice BRONZE marking on the reverse suspender. A great example. They are an interesting side avenue to the vic collector and alot of them are rare in their own right. Very collectible items. Regards, Rob

Hello Paul and Lambert, Another close review of the image shows the appearance of an extended suspender on the medal. This is quite characteristic of the modern reproductions that have been on the ebay auction scene for quite some time. Noting the price it is probable that this piece, priced accordingly, is just such a modern reproduction. I have attached a probable contender in the image for comparison. Regards, Rob

Hello Jean-Michel, Moving this reply here to keep it locked against the Greek vic topic. I can positively confirm HUGUENIN examples do exist, and i have examples in my collection. Having said that; however, I no longer post any pictures of my collection here on GMIC. I agree with your comments about the lack of archives from long-standing (very long-standing in the case of maison HUGUENIN) european manufacturers and it will probably only get worse as time marches on for what would be very old paper records. In regards the Greek vic diploma. Yes; totally agree. They are extremely difficult to find. Regards, Rob Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, A good pic up. Yes; confirmed as the 'covered ear' variety. Regards, Rob

Hi Rob, That in itself is a vexing question as it really is determined by what a collector is willing to spend to obtain the piece. General mintage figures of the vic series are well known so that is a measurable metric in regards scarcity but the larger question has always been availability in the market and not scarcity. The Siam vic and Brazil vic are often described as the most difficult to obtain and maybe the tyranny of distance from major commercial marketplaces is a factor. I would be hesitant to profer a price as per the reasoing in the first paragraph. The more salient point is determining authenticity of any piece and once confirmed as a 'genuine' article (aided by knowledge, books, and hi-res pictures of known good examples) it is then up to the individual collectors as to what their budget is, and how committed they are to obtaining a piece. It also depends on whether or not the piece is either the start or end of a collection. I, for one, no longer collect the pieces as my collection is complete but there is always someone out their in the vic collecting arena that has holes in their collections to fill. Regards, Rob Hello Jean-Michel, I would agree and concur that the rarer examples are the Brazilian (type 1), Portugal (type 1) and then the Siam strikes. The Huguenin greek variety is very difficult to obtain. It took me many years to accurately identify and then obtain such an example. Not seen often at all. Regards, Rob

Hello Drone, Yes; availability comes and goes with the marketplace quantity fluctuating wildly at times. If you are looking for a specific unofficial variety it is best to keep a watching eye on the online auction houses as well as the more established commercial vendors. Of course the scourge of 'fakes' of all varieties of vic only seem to be on the increase. While it doesn't happen often larger more substantial collections occasionally come on to the market which have both quantity and quality for new and old collectors alike. Inevitably all collectors come to a point where they dispose of their collection, so it pays to be patient. Regards, Rob

Hello dron, It looks like a good example of the unofficial type 2 (Laslo classification). You mention there are no markings on the medal edge. I would expect to at least see the BRONZE marking somewhere on the rim. Having said that there are examples that do not have any edge markings, either BRONZE or the makers mark, but these are quite rarely seen. Regards, Rob Hello dron, A good example of the unofficial type 1 (Laslo classification). It is unusual to see examples that have no edge markings although they are seen from time to time; normally with a planchet that has a slightly shinier bronze finish. I have also seen an example without any edge markings that had a barrel suspender in the fashion of the official French strike, but these examples are rare indeed. Regards, Rob

Hello Dave, Yes; a very nice example indeed. I would concur that it is likely to be a French repro as the detail and production values are very good. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, Yes; I've seen mis-strikes of the US vic previously but not of the official sort as per your example. The mis-strikes I've seen were the French and Italian reproductions. Regards, Rob

Hello Geof, Don't be too despondent. It is still a nice repro. As has been highlighted on the particular sub-thread the Siam and Brazil vics are probably the most difficult of the official strikes to obtain; in good condition. There are some of the repro's that are very hard to find but as far as official strikes are concerned most people's collection are missing those two. Having a repro is the next best thing and yours is in good condition, with no edge knocks, defects, dents or verdigris so that in itself is a bonus. It also has the correct to type French produced ribbon. A nice placeholder until you can get eventually obtain an official strike. Even if you do manage to get an official strike the repro's are handy to use as reference pieces as well. Regards, Rob

Hello Herman, There is an additional bronze BWM thread at: You may want to re-post in that area to see if additional replies can shed more light. Regards, Rob

Hello No One, An interesting artefact indeed. The French were very prescriptive in the award qualification criteria for their interallied vic. Some of the more interesting award certificates are of the 'external theatres' which had even more restrictive qualifying areas and conditions. It is this diversity of award and qualifying certificates which makes collecting vic documents so rewarding, especially if you have some background to the recipient as well. Regards, Rob

Hello Dron, Nothing too unusual there. You have a nice official strike (Laslo classification). The cracks in the die are not unusual either given the pressure the planchet is exposed to when the medal is struck. The medal ribbon on your example is of italian production so to be more correct to type I would suggest you replace with some original french produced ribbon. Regards, Rob

Hello azyeoman, That's great information about Gregory James' book. I shall have to track one down for reference. Regards, Rob