RobW

To all, This medal has been produced by at least 7 official manufacturers and at 2, possibly more, unofficial manufacturers. The official manufacturers are listed as: * CFML (Lorioli-Castelli, Milano) * M. Nelli. Inc (Mario Nelli & C, Firenze) * Sachhini (Milano) * S‧I‧M (Società Italiana Medaglia, Rome) * S‧I‧M ROMA (Società Italiana Medaglia, Rome) * S J (Stefano Johnson, Milano) * No marking (Unknown) Unofficial manufactures are identified as: * M. Delande and 1 other. All of these varieties have both minor and major differences in the strikes and the metals used in production. In addition to the medals with the standard tri-colour ribbon there are also varieties with different ribbons that were awarded to the Merchant Navy, and unofficially to the State Railways. The State Railways were issued a ribbon but were never officially awarded the medal; even if the recipients used the medal anyway. Such a variety of medals make for a very interesting collecting field. Hope this is of use. Regards, Rob

To all, Here is a close-up of the Sacchini-Milano variety posted in #5 above. The makers mark of the 'M.Nelli Inc' variety is proving to be difficult to scan. Needless to say it is in the same position as the 'Sacchini-Milano' mark. There is a variety produced by S.Johnson of Milan. In this case the makers mark is immediately below the wreath at centre bottom of the obverse, simply marked 'S J'. When I can find my example I shall post a pic. Regards, Rob

And here is the close up of the S‧I‧M variety. Regards, Rob

To all, Here is another example of an Italian War Commemorative Medal. It is produced in a much darker bronze finish and has the makers mark of 'S‧I‧M' of Rome, underneath the bottom of the bust of King Vittorio Emanuele III. 'S‧I‧M' stood for 'Società Italiana Medaglia' and was another medal manufacturer from Rome. There is yet another variety that is marked 'S‧I‧M ROMA'. Close up of the mark to follow. Regards, Rob

Hello Timo, The set is not complete - yet! The only remaining variety that I am still looking for is the example in posts #8-9 of this thread. That example has much shorter sword hilts, minor obverse and reverse design variations and much thicker date fonts. When I have that variety my set will be complete. It is always a good challenge to identify the myriad of varieties of a particular medal and then to spend some not inconsiderable time locating them all. Much fun is had along the way Regards, Rob

And here is another. On this occasion the medal is only 13mm in diameter but it still has such fine detail. Regards, Rob

To all, To change direction here are a couple of miniature Commemorative WW1 medals in different sizes. The first is from a small French medal miniature bar that showed service in the Orient as well as Serbia. This medal is 17.4 mm in diameter. Regards, Rob

To all, To add a little bit of a change here is another Commemorative Medal but this is in miniature. For a mini only 11mm in diameter it is still a finely detailed piece. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, As it turns out the medal in question actually has the standard Paris Mint mark and BR. I will continue the search for the Bertrand model. Here is the pics of the Paris mint variety. Regards, Rob

Hello Linas, The only information I could add is that yes your identification of the medal is correct. The inscriptions on the obverse are; on the left 1948 (AD) and Palestine on the right in Arabic script. The Order was created on 18 December 1951 and awarded for bravery and service in the battles in Palestine in 1948 and 1949. It was awarded in very small number to Syrian personnel (estimated at approximately 8,000), serving in two infantry brigades, a mechanised battalion, and a very small air force. The Order was produced by the Paris firm of Arthus Bertrand and has been seen contained in a plain paper envelope. Hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Hello Timo, Yes I did. The Serb medals are always a nice find and do turn up in some unexpected places. Regards, Rob

Hello Thomas, I am always impressed at the level of craftsmanship displayed in mini medals of the Great War era, and that is something that I don't think is seen in mini's of the current era. Despite there being particularly small versions of the same mini, as seen in some French vic mini's of 11mm and 13mm there is still a lot of detail (posts #151-153). Even some of the Italian mini groups are very nicely finished in very minute detail (posts #110-112). In that regard they are worth collecting and are somewhat cheaper than their full size cousins. Finding these groups, either in mini form or full-size is somewhat an exercise in patience and being able to spot a good group when it should come up. Most of my groups have been obtained from fellow collectors or private sales. Apart from some more well known European auction houses, Ebay in its many guises is also a place where interesting items are known to pop up randomly, especially in France and Belgium. Most of my more interesting items will not be posted mainly because they are not located in close enough proximity for to me to scan. At some stage in the medium term I will re-unite all my collection and scan some more. Regards, Rob

Hello Timo, Here is some additional information that may help. Your medal was not produced by Huguenin Frères because it does not have the signature mark of 'Huguenin' on the reverse just above the wreath at the centre bottom. Based on some comparisons of the text on the obverse, as well as the inscription and sword handles, and hilts on the reverse, I would suggest that your example was produced by the French firm of Arthus Bertrand. According to the medal regulations it was to have been made in 36mm diameter but copies were also manufactured in 30mm diameter, hence you regularly see medals in both sizes. While the medal was produced in gilt-bronze and silver, there have also been other examples produced in a silver alloy, silver-plated bronze, as well as brass. In addition I have seen an example by Arthus Bertrand that was produced in gold with hallmarks on the suspension ring. It is not uncommon for the gilt-bronze examples to be seen with all the gilt finish worn and rubbed off. The medal was awarded as follows: * In Gold - to officers for 'valour tested in battle' and NCOs in exceptional cases 'for fearless bravery in battle'. * In Silver - to NCOs and other ranks. The qualification criteria was taken from the very well illustrated and comprehensive reference book on the subject: 'Serbian and Yugoslavian Orders and Decorations, 1859-1941' by Pavel Car and Tomislav Muhić, 2009. This is well recommended. Here is my 30mm example for comparison. It is part of a larger group awarded to a Greek officer. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, I would agree that both matrices from Nixon and Laslo are good for illustrating qualifying unit at the Divisional level but for anything other than that more research and digging is required. I also am aware that, in addition to the errata added to the 'Battle Participation' reference, at the time of publication in 1920, many more minor amendments were made until at least the late 1930s. Where these amendments are recorded are anyones guess. Of course all the qualifying credit applies to individuals and not units so it is not all too uncommon for a specific individual to have moved around and hence become qualified for other clasps. I have an enlarged cobbled together listing of units and sub-units and clasp entitlement but it is not suitable for anything but the most cursory and initial searches. In addition to the 'Battle Participation' reference I also use: * Order of Battle of the US Land Forces in the World War, AEF: Divisions. 1931. This has cronologies of operations and movements. * The History of the AEF by Shipley Thomas, 1920. This volume also provides a short synopsis of each Division and has a good level of detail. This at least helps me narrow down the possible circumstances of a difference or variation in battle clasp entitlement. Regards, Rob

To all, Here is a recent pickup. This is one of my nicest French mini groups consisting of: * Médaille Militaire, 1870-1951 issue * Croix de Guerre (1914-1918 reverse) * War Combatant Cross (Paris mint variety with cornucopia mark and BR on the reverse) * Vic (13mm) * War Commemorative Medal * Medal for Syria-Cilicia and Levant mounted on the Médaille d´ Orient ribbon * Serbia Commemorative Cross for the War of Liberation and Union, 1914-1918 The nice elements about this group are that the Médaille Militaire is of multi-part construction and the very attractive ribbon bar with panels of roses and wreaths on the top. Also interesting about this group is the fact that the Levant medal is mounted on the Medal for the East ribbon. The Levant and East (Salonika) medals are almost identical except for the wording on the reverse. The ribbon and the adjacent Serbian medal suggest that this Levant medal is a replacement for an East medal but it is also possible that the recipient moved on from Serbia to the new French mandates in the Middle East (Syria and Lebanon) after the war and it was mistakenly ribboned. Either way it is a very nice and complete group showing long and interesting service. It is these departures from the norm, found in such mini medal groups, that make vics such a rich collecting field. Regards, Rob

Hello Makedon, The markings of 'MADE IN FRANCE' are indeed the work of various French manufacturers, including Arthus Bertrand and M. Delande. These markings are regularly seen on victory medals from the period as well. The US Tariff Law of 1931 required imported merchandise to be labelled 'Made in ...', while the previous US 1891 law required labeling only with the country name of origin. So it would appear that these War Cross' were produced in the same 1920s-1930s period and marked accordingly. Hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, This particular French produced ribbon indeed frayes and crumbles particularly easy. It is also seen on the official Greek victory medal that have survived with their boxes of issue. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, I have located my Commemorative war medal with the Arthus Bertrand makers mark. When I return to Sydney in a couple of weeks I shall scan it and post pics. Regards, Rob

Hello makedon, Very nice group of awards. It is also interesting that the Serbian Milosh Obilitch medal is also mounted with the group. It would be good to see others post their Great War (1914-1918) groups as well as there just doesn't seem to be many around. Regards, Rob

Tim, The miniature group is also nice and shows a good spread of awards as follows: 1. Order of the Crown 2. Twenty Five Years Service decoration 3. Trans Danube Cross, 1877-78 4. Balkan Wars medal 1913 5. Commemorative War Cross 1916-18 6. Victory medal 7. Peles Medal 1933 8. Carol I Centennial Medal 1839-1939 Of note is that the vic is 14mm in diameter indicating local Romanian manufacture. French mini's came in generally standard sizes of 10, 11, 13 and 15mm. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, Last posts for a while. I would agree that there are always differences in the medals seen on bars. In the case of the full-size bar the victory medal depicted is, in Mr Laslo's parlance, an unofficial type 2; Reverse N variety. I would also agree that it is a nice full size group. Regards, Rob

To Ed and all, I recently came across this group to a member of the Sikh Light Infantry. Of interest is that one of the medals is missing and I'm not too sure if it has come adrift from the group or was not yet attached. I noticed on this thread that it seems to be a seemingly regular occurrence to have medals missing from groups. The details of the individual are: 4444408 Lance Naik Joginder Singh, Sikh Light Infantry My limited knowledge of Indian medals has identified the group as: * General Service Medal 1947, Naga Hills * Pashchimi Star, 1971 * Raksha Medal, 1965 (not present) * Sangram Medal, 1971 * Sainya Seva Medal - (unsure of the clasp name) * 25th Independence Anniversary Medal, 1972 * 9 Years Long Service Medal Do I have these details correct? Any other information of note, or opinions would be gratefully received. Regards, Rob

Hello Herr General, No it is not. I obtained my copy from a collector friend in Prague a few years ago. I think I may have a second copy which I shall look for when I return to Sydney in a week. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim and others, As everybody serving in Czech legions was eligible for this Cross, many variants were produced. The medal was designed by the French sculptor Antoine Bourdel, and it is his initials 'AB' which can be found on the reverse of some varieties. The Czech medal book referred to previously lists 4 main varieties of which an example is shown. These varieties are: a. Type 1 – Bronze cross 1918-19, French production, stamped AB. b. Type 2 – Light bronze 1920-38, with signature. c. Type 3 – Dark bronze 1920-38, with signature. d. Type 4 – Bronze 1920-38, without signature. There are also more varieties indicated but these are unlisted with hollow pieces being described as quite common. The are quite a number of ribbon devices for this medal. The number on the ribbon is the number of the regiment and/or Czech Legion the participant served in. The shields with numbers relate to the following regiments-legions and locations: a. Russian Legion - 1-12 b. French Legion - 21-24 c. Italian Legion - 31-35 and 39 In addition to the regimental numbers there were a number of named shields and bars that indicated action participation as follows: a. ČD (Česká Družina or Czech Brigade) b. L.E. (Légion Étrangère or Foreign Legion). c. Russian Legion - ZBOROV, BACHMAČ, SIBIŘ. d. French Legion - ALSACE, ARGONNE, PERONNE. e. Italian Legion - DOSS' ALTO, PIAVE. d. Those in Serbia - S or SERBIE. There are numerous reproductions of these bars with original ones considered quite rare. What complicates matters is that some original manufacturers have also produced recent versions as well so it is quite difficult to differentiate repro from original. I have a couple of Czech groups that have the Revolution Cross with ribbon devices. When I can track them down I shall post pics later. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, Some of this information was posted in another forum thread last year but is of relevance here as well. Some details on the Revolution Cross / Medal and its varieties and myriad of ribbon devices is contained in this handy Czech medals reference. It is in Czech and has numerous pictures and details that would assist the collector. More details on the Revolution Cross / Medal to follow. Regards, Rob