J Temple-West

I presume lid of the interior houses the 'urkunde'

Interior.

Hi Kevin Here's one by "Brehmer" currently for sale by Helmut Weitze.

This comparison shot shows Juncker?s 2nd pattern wreath/4th pattern eagle RO/AG (plated zinc) next to the same badge with what I believe to be a factory modified (bolts removed) AG/FE badge.

Hi, R. Firstly, if we look at the ?Juncker? RO/AG series, we?ll get a feeling for the production timeline. Top left: 1st pattern wreath/1st pattern eagle. Top right: 1st pattern wreath/2nd pattern eagle. Bottom left: 2nd pattern wreath/3rd pattern eagle Bottom right: 2nd pattern wreath/4th pattern eagle. If we look at the production timeline of the RO/AG we can place your badge (2nd pattern wreath/3rd pattern eagle) as being produced around 1938/39. These 2nd pattern wreath/3rd pattern eagle types would have been issued until the new dies for Juncker?s zinc series (2nd pattern wreath/4th pattern eagle) came out, suggesting that the odds are that your badge had most likely already left the factory, been issued and was modified by either a jeweller or in-field after the order ?No.1698? (22nd June 1942) was published instituting the AG/FE badge and stating that those who held the RO/AG badge, were air gunners, should have the bolts removed to distinguish them from radio operators.

Hi Scott. Most (I include myself) consider these aluminium large ?A? eagles to be post-war produced. If we look at the comparison of the original aluminium ?DRGM? marked badge (top) and the later ?A? marked example in zinc (middle) we see that the same obverse die was used for both, showing that the argument for there being a second set of dies produced by ?Assmann? for the aluminium large ?A? type (bottom) is a non-starter.

An extremely rare group....The P/O (Mark Miller collection)...Para (my collection) and the Pilot, side-by-side.

Hi Butch... Here is one I have on file..not in the collection as yet...a very hard piece to find!

Great pic, M...and as rare as hen's teeth! Couldn't resist blowing it up for a better look-see.

I can only echo Gordon's comments. More, more!

Spot-on, Jos. Looking at the dates on the documents for his clasps, he would have been part of the large transport group attached to ?Afrika korps? which kept the various units supplied with all that was needed for the fast moving campaign. ?Knappe? would have been directly attached to JG27 in the transport wing of the squadron which would have come under the control of Staff HQ.

Here?s mine by ?Ed W?sthof ? Solingen? (still in operation today making kitchen knives.) The hanger is by "Assmann" This particular piece was found in Hamburg in the storeroom of a butcher?s shop wrapped in a piece of paper marked 1938.

I agree, Gordon.

So that we?re all on the same page, here is an example of the common fake clasp available out there. As Mark says, being instituted, entries in soldbuch/wehrpass made and urkunde issued does not necessarily mean that the award was ever presented. This being the same for the ?Sea Battle Badge-Seekampfabzeichen der Luftwaffe? and ?Tank Battle Badge-Panzerkampfabzeichen der Luftwaffe.? If any of these late war badges were presented they would be in very low numbers and extremely hard to find. To date, there is no evidence that any of these badges were ever presented? and if one were to find an example that looked good, what would you compare it to.

Looks good to me.

Hi Steve. Yep, you're right. I previously thought the Observer was without the ?fingerprint? but on inspection with loop and angled badge?there is indeed the faintest evidence of said ?fingerprint.?

Paul The more you look at it the more convinced you?ll become. On first sight, I?d say it?s a little redder than the Judicial. Put the uniform away, come back to it in a couple of days and see if it makes a difference.

Not necessarily, Ian. The badges posted by Fran?ois look to be spot-on. When all is said and done, it probably comes down to personal preference. We have badges with and without the ?fingerprint? marks. Two possible explanations: a. The marks are not marks from the die but made by some sort of finishing tool such as a grinder which was not used on all badges b. If tooling marks.... at some point during the production the reverse die was changed. I would say that ?a? is the most likely as similar marks can be found on badges made by other makers. For example: the reverse of two ?Assmann? badges made at the same time showing circular marks on one but not the other. Of course, pure speculation?just some thoughts for the pot.

PB and P/O definitely. The Ob?s has not.

Side-by-side comparison of all three maker marks.

Combined Pilot/Observer Badge maker mark with heavy defect.

Combined Pilot/Observer Badge.

Observer badge with slight maker mark defect.

Observer Badge.

Pilot's badge maker mark without defect.