Rare photo with Officer?s Honor Cross Lippe-Detmold

[Solomon]

Hello gentlemen,

here is again a very nice photo from a Officer from Lippe-Detmold

I think the year in which this photo was taken should be 1941, as you can read at the top of the picture.

This photo is much rarer as it seems to be:

This man got the following awards:

at the ribbon bar:

-IC 2nd class 1914

-war merit cross Lippe-Detmold

-military merit medal Lippe-Detmold (???)

-House Order of Lippe-Detmold (perhaps 3th class with swords...because the Officer?s Honor Cross replaces the old 3th class with oakleaves!!!)

-Hindenburg-cross

at his breast:

-Spange 1939 for iron cross 2nd class (early style!)

-IC 1st class 1939

-black wound badge WW I

-Officer?s Honor Cross with swords Lippe-Detmold

This photo is very rare, because the Officer?s Honor Cross with swords was only 37 times awarded !

I?m sorry, but I haven?t the fitting cross in my collection...I missed one last year in an auction because of its price

[Solomon]

I got this photo on Ebay for a quite nice price...

But the seller offered a few month ago another photo from this man - I missed it, because it was too expensive...

On this photo (maybe taken in 1935) this soldiers had some more awards at his ribbon bar, as you can see on that picture.

I have no idea, which awards they are (surely all awards he wasn?t allowed to wear official after he got the Hindenburg-cross).

It is also very intersting, that the war merit cross Lippe is mounted at this ribbon bar at the wrong place!

It had to be mounted directly after the IC 1914!

Maybe, Rick can help me again to find out his name

Greetings

Solomon

Edited August 3, 2006 by Solomon

[Stogieman]

Now that cross is a very rare bird. Nice photo. Sorry you missed the second one.

[Guest Rick Research]

Nope. This makes absolutely no sense and I simply cannot explain it in any way.

The Officer grade X was given to colonels and that level of war effort military officials/court functionaries.

It makes absolutely no sense to a 1935 Leutnant.

I do not even see a child-Prince having received it.

There is no match on the Rolls.

Given how neat and accurate and complete the -Detmold rolls are, I can only offer:

1) he is simply wearing something HE thought he was entitled to, but simply was not

2) it is an undocumented 1930s award to a very junior member of the former ruling house.

The House Order grades were given INFLEXIBLY by rank of the recipient. I find birthdates from the 1850s to 1870s, and that is all of them.

[Daniel Cole]

Maybe this guy is a reinactor!

[webr55]

Rick Research said:

2) it is an undocumented 1930s award to a very junior member of the former ruling house.

I am no expert here, but there must have been a number of post-1918 awards of higher grades for the House Order. I can think of Reichs Chancellery Chief H. Lammers with a neck grade:

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

... inexplicable for a 1914 Leutnant.

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah! Thanks for that scan of Lammers!

There, I think is the answer!

I know that the Nazi Duke of Saxe-Coburg had a mass of Party-comrade handouts around 1935, which is when these dynastic awards were supposed to have been shut down by Hitler.

Among all the Rolls that I've just gotten, the ONLY one to show awards that were not simply late processing for the war (into 1919) is from Hohenzollern--

THREE awards were made between 1928-30 for the 1914-18 war, TWO were actually made in the summer of 1945 ( ), and replacements were shown into 1947!

[Solomon]

Thank you for your help...it?s an unespected answer

I thought it would have been an easy job to identify this man...

Greetings

Solomon

[Guest Rick Research]

I think when you next go to the Archives, you need to ask them about records AFTER 1920.

Obviously no jeweler made these pieces ONE AT A TIME for Lammers and whoever this Leutnant was-- so they must have been OLD pieces from the Orders Chancery handed out--for whatever "reasons" and contrary to all previous rules-- to Third Reich recipients.

I never heard that the ex-ruling family of Lippe-Detmold WAS involved with the Nazis, but now this makes me wonder....

[Willi]

so they must have been OLD pieces from the Orders Chancery handed out--for whatever "reasons" and contrary to all previous rules-- to Third Reich recipients.

According to the newest book abot LD orders/medals Zimmermann in Pforzheim made a lot of all grades of the LD House order at least until 1925/27.

Edited August 11, 2006 by Willi

[webr55]

Rick Research said:

I never heard that the ex-ruling family of Lippe-Detmold WAS involved with the Nazis, but now this makes me wonder....

And here is another one: Viktor Lutze, with pinback Lippe (sold by Weitze right now):

Edited November 14, 2017 by webr55

[Solomon]

Also a very interesting picture!

Now I have a name, to look for in the archive...interesting, that this man is also not listed in the award rolls

Greetings

Solomon

Edited September 28, 2006 by Solomon

[Komtur]

...

I never heard that the ex-ruling family of Lippe-Detmold WAS involved with the Nazis, but now this makes me wonder.... ...

Just by chance I found this interesting thread. I can add the following:

There is a promotion to a Dr. phil. from Stephan Malinowski "Vom K?nig zum F?hrer / Deutscher Adel und Nationalsozialismus" in a book edition from 2004 (Fischer-Verlag). He shows via statistics, that the Lippe F?rstenhaus WAS involved with the Nazis. From all former German ruling houses they had the highest proportion of NSDAP members (both Lippe 10 before 1933, Schaumburg-Lippe 10 after 1933, Lippe-Detmold 18 after 1933). Ernst Erbprinz zur Lippe joined the party in 1928 in the age of 26. He was the first of the former high aristocracy in the NSDAP. Later he was member of the personel staff of Walther Darr?.

This may be an explanation for the above mentioned awards of the House Order after 1918.

With regards, Komtur.

[Guest Rick Research]

Excellent information to know, thanks! There may be AOTHER set of award rolls in FAMILY possession which are not considered State records.

[Solomon]

Excellent information to know, thanks! There may be AOTHER set of award rolls in FAMILY possession which are not considered State records.

Yes, this maybe right...I think there is no chance to look into these rolls.

The files after 1918 are stored in the castle of Detmold, not in the archive (another collector told me).

You need a permission (given by the Prince of Lippe) to look into these files.

I haven?t tried this yet, but I?m sure it won?t be easy.

I know, that there are recent files in the castle of Schaumburg in Hannover, which are locked by the Prince of Schaumburg...

Best regards

Roman

[Daniel Cole]

Is the guy pictured in post 12 wearing a Gauleiter or political uniform? I see a Gold party badge.

[Solomon]

Is the guy pictured in post 12 wearing a Gauleiter or political uniform? I see a Gold party badge.

I think, he is wearing the SA-Stabschef uniform...he looks like Viktor Lutze, but I?m not sure...

Best regards

Roman

EDIT:

It is Viktor Lutze...no doubt.

I found the same photo here: http://www.themarshalsbaton.com/Rare%20ranks.htm

Edited December 28, 2007 by Solomon