Soviet Order of Suvorov

[Khyber]

Could I have your opinions on this item?

[Khyber]

Reverse side. #10435

[NavyFCO]

I'm not a fan of it, but the photos on my monitor screen are compressed due to my dial up connection. For my vote though, I'm going to say that it's fake.

Dave

[Riley1965]

Dave,

For those like me who have never laid eyes on a Suvorov, Please explain what is wrong with this Suvorov.

Doc

[Alfred]

Hi Khyber,

I don?t like this one, but I am no expert on Suvorovs. I only handled one genuine.

Comapre it with the picture.

I don?t like the points around the medaillon. They look crude and not regularly. I don?t like the

brass screwpost. The mint mark looks strange and so on.

Compare it with a picture of a genuine one.

regards

Andreas

[Khyber]

Thanks for the comments. I have always assumed this was a copy (it came on a generals dress uniform I acquired). I was looking at a New York dealers web site today and there was a Suvorov 3rd with a close S/N that looked a lot like this one. Mine has been worn and polished and the enamel is gone. I do not like the look of the screw post but I can not see a lot of difference between it and pictures of later issued "certified" ones. I was interested in what other eyes could see.

Ron

Edited August 18, 2006 by Khyber

[Alfred]

if we go into detail, compare the noses, compare the points around the medaillon, compare the different construction of the band on the wreath and so on .............

[Khyber]

Got it. The differences are clear. Many thanks. I knew there was a good reason why I stayed away from these orders when I was in my Russian Medal Feeding Frenzy.

Thanks

Ron

[Mondvor]

This Suvorov was made from real order using high-pressure cast technology. First you have to take nice and precise impression from a real order. They use impression materials similar to those used in dentistry. The liquid metal forced to those impressions under very high pressure, so even small details reflected on the future surface of fake order. You can clearly see, that mint mark has original shape and even serial number has original handwriting pattern.

About the obverse. Nose on Suvorov's face is OK. Late variation of Suvorov (appr. after 10.200) have this shape of nose. BTW, he looks like Putin little bit.

Edited August 19, 2006 by Mondvor

[Riley1965]

Thanks for showing the differences and what to look for. I hope to have a Suvorov one day.

Doc

[Wild Card]

The irregularities in the beading, alone, not to mention the bloating of the rim of the center medallion at three o?clock, should answer the question.

[Mondvor]

Rings any bells?

[Alfred]

Is 10.439 a fake ? The reverse looks very good.

regards

Andreas

[Khyber]

This was all very enlightening, particularly the manufacturing technique. I am glad I posted this one.

Ron

[Mondvor]

Is 10.439 a fake ? The reverse looks very good.

regards

Andreas

Andreas, Suvorov 10.439 is real. But if you compare serial numbers of this order and serial number of the fake order posted earlier by Khyber you'll see something interesting.

[Khyber]

Amazing. I looked more closely and my copy (truly it is a copy and a fake) is numbered 10439 thus the one on the web site was the master for the mold. No wonder it looked familiar.

Ron

[Christophe]

Andreas, Suvorov 10.439 is real. But if you compare serial numbers of this order and serial number of the fake order posted earlier by Khyber you'll see something interesting.

Andrei,

How can you explain such a copy? Do you know the history of the real one? Did the fakers have the possibility to cast it?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers.

Ch.

[Mondvor]

Andrei,

How can you explain such a copy? Do you know the history of the real one? Did the fakers have the possibility to cast it?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers.

Ch.

This real Suvorov 3rd class was for sale in Russia several month ago. Unfortunately I have no idea who bought it. Probably the new owner made impressions from a real piece to produce a copy. Or it could be previous owner. Or a dealer in between them. Who knows...

[Christophe]

Andrei,

Thanks for the answers. That's for sure is an interesting piece. If I was the new owner of the real one, I would be interested in having such a copy... just for the fun!! But how many copies have been made ?

Ch.

[Riley1965]

When I am able to obtain the Suvorov, Nevsky, etc. I would want a copy for display and the genuine in a security box in the bank vault.

Doc

[Mondvor]

When I am able to obtain the Suvorov, Nevsky, etc. I would want a copy for display and the genuine in a security box in the bank vault.

Doc

Doc, this idea make sense. Many collectors doing this way. But this very copy of Suvorov was made for different reason. As far as I understand it was on sale...