Sword use in WW2

[Eric Gaumann]

Is there any documented, or even anecdotal, history of sword play in the Second World War?

While I suspect there was some cossaks swinging steel, and the Japanese Army used blades with some notoriety has anyone ever heard of an actual sword being used in combat in WWII, especially on the Western Front?

Since the British and the German officer corp were for the most part required to have a sword for dress situations I have to assume that at one point somebody must have unsheathed a blade during the heat of battle. Anyone ever heard of that?

Just curious.

Thanks so much,

[Butch]

The only useage of Swords that I know of in WW2 is a couple of pictures of Japanese cutting off the heads of Marines. Those Photos were gruesome. Butch

[Brian Wolfe]

Is there any documented, or even anecdotal, history of sword play in the Second World War?

While I suspect there was some cossaks swinging steel, and the Japanese Army used blades with some notoriety has anyone ever heard of an actual sword being used in combat in WWII, especially on the Western Front?

Since the British and the German officer corp were for the most part required to have a sword for dress situations I have to assume that at one point somebody must have unsheathed a blade during the heat of battle. Anyone ever heard of that?

Just curious.

Thanks so much,

Hi Eric,

I guess that would depend on what you mean by sword play. I doubt there are any documented incidents involving the use of a dress sword in actual combat. The use of the sword to decapitate a prisoner is not what I would call combat, that's an execution.

There was a calvary charge that was made by the Polish Calvary on 1 September, 1939 against German troops. The Polish Calvary discontinued the use of the lance in 1937 (?) but kept the sabre. While the units usually dismounted to fight I suppose this could have been considered as using a sword in combat if some soldiers were carrying them at the time. There is a myth that the Polish Calvary attacked German tanks but that was pure propaganda by the Nazis. The charge itself served to slow the German advance considerably.

So this is my offering of the use of the sword in combat during WW II.

Cheers

Brian

[coastie]

I have not heard any stories of swords in combat in WWII but there is a story floating around (even heard this before the internet) that North Koeans/Communists/Chinese overran a base and a Marine without ammo grabbed a cutlass that was on display and whacked a few of the enemy with it.

I've not be able to confirm this story but it's out there.

[Roeland]

I do think someone has picked up a sword and fought with it, although is was not considered an official weapon for troops on the western front (as said, probably only as a dress sword).

On the Western front, swords and cavalry attacks are considered to have last happened in WW1, but of course bajonets where still used for close combat.

I do know many russians fought with shovels(nice to cut of heads and arms in city fights), because they lacked guns (or for close combat like done with bajonets), so perhaps on the eastern front or less modern armies used melee weapons in the heat of battle.

Or at least I can't image an American bringing his sword along with d-day, or any other modern army.

So in my opinion, only guns where used, but someone might have picked up a sword as last defence or lack of other weapons, but it is not documented as fights in WW2 are considered to be fought with guns and perhaps only a few people used melee instead of whole armies, regiments or groups, so it would just be an exception.

[Ed_Haynes]

See: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=23738

Junior Sergeant Smadik surely found a good use for his sword!

[Roeland]

he killed 4 germans and took 2 officers captive in that action, quite interesting for ''only using his blade''.

He was part of the mounted troops.

[Ulsterman]

There were some cavalry charges using the blade only (with a pistol I'd bet) in Ethiopia by the British and Ethiopian troops against the Italians. Also apparently there were charges by Russian cavalry and also by the Italians.

See here for an overview. i remember reading about the Indian cavalry when i was a kid in the Victor comic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalry#World_War_II

A local woman i know tells me her Uncle watched this last great charge by US forces :

http://cgi.stanford.edu/group/wais/cgi-bin/index.php?p=7831.

Edited December 12, 2007 by Ulsterman

[Ed_Haynes]

I also know some Indians who claimed they used the sword in both East Africa and Burma (in the latter case, States' Forces, but you'd expect that!).

[Ulsterman]

As an aside, my Nan once helped escort a rather badly knocked about German pilot to the local police station using an 1821 pattern cavalry sabre which was used for whacking weeds in the garden. I doubt that counts.

[Ed_Haynes]

As an aside, my Nan once helped escort a rather badly knocked about German pilot to the local police station using an 1821 pattern cavalry sabre which was used for whacking weeds in the garden. I doubt that counts.

Your Nan or Sergeant Smadik? Who'd I fear most??

[Ulsterman]

My Nan was quite formidable.

She still scares me and she's been dead 12 years.

She thought Thatcher was soft!

That generation was tough.

Edited February 2, 2008 by Ulsterman

[Ed_Haynes]

My Nan was quite formidable.

She still scares me and she's been dead 12 years. She though Thatcher was soft!

That generation was tough.

Very true, but I think Smadik had a demonstrably "out of control" streak that her generation would never have tolerated; that's bad manners, you know.

[Ulsterman]

Very true, but I think Smadik had a demonstrably "out of control" streak that her generation would never have tolerated; that's bad manners, you know.

True-my younger cousin once made the mistake of going for a sausage roll without asking and got his fingers jabbed by a carving knife for it. Still, she sat on a picnic blanket and watched the blitz in an open field-interesting times.

[landsknechte]

There was always "Mad" Jack Churchill:

http://wwiihistorymagazine.com/2005/july/col-profiles.html

He was reputed to have carried one into battle on a number of different occasions, in addition to the longbow he was fond of. Yes, longbow.

[Brian Wolfe]

Mad Jack Chirchill had an amazining career almost too amazing. The article reads like a comic book story suited to be fodder for yet another Rambo movie. I'm not saying that it is a load of dung, just to be clear and save a lot of posts defending the man. I am saying that it is one amazing story. Arrows flying, sword bleaming in the night, all the while leading his men to victory. I wonder how many of his men lost their lives following him from one Miltary Cross to another?

Brian

[peter monahan]

I also know some Indians who claimed they used the sword in both East Africa and Burma (in the latter case, States' Forces, but you'd expect that!).

Ed

When were the last Indian units "de-horsed" and mechanized? I should know but the mind's going. I ask because using a sword without the benefit of a horse for speed and weight strikes me as a complicated form of suicide.

I know that the last British units - Yeomanry Cavalry - actually made it to Vichy Lebanon and Iraq with their horses but lost them there. I also believe that, sadly, the US 26th wound up eating their horses in the last days before the Japanese completed their conquest of that area of the world.

Peter

[swordfish]

For intents and purposes, we know the answer. With the exceptins of the Japanese and the Cossaks shashka, just about ever other major power during the war only utilized sabers for formal wear and parade. The German sabers, for example, are not built with combat in mind and wouldn't last very long if one attempted to us a functional weapon. I own many of them, and can tell you by thier construction exactly what they were used for. Theoretically, some of the daggers, like SAs and '33s and 36's are capable of use in a combat situation, however I suspect it was rarely, i mean RARELY used in that capacity. On the side of the US, I guess there were still a few Patton M-13s floating around with some mounted units, and that's about it. We've seen photos of German heer officers/NCOs with sabers in wear while mounted, but again, for ceremonial and class A only. These particular sabers would not stand up to the riggor of a mounted charge.

[Frogprince]

While the use of swords by Soviet horseman is clearly documented, the picture is not as clear for the Germans. There are prewar photographs of German cavalrymen with saddle mounted swords. And Third Reich examples of armory reworked Imperial era (red arrow marking) n/A M 1856 Prussian artillery sabers. How much use did they see? FP

Edited February 20, 2009 by Frogprince

[TS Allen]

I doubt the reworked German sabers saw much use.

Mad Jack Churchill is probably one of the most interesting figures in the history of the British Army. I can only imagine what a movie about his life would look like, especially with some Hollywood embellishments.

Family story has it that one of my relatives was with that Polish cavalry charge, starting out as an officer in a supporting artillery unit and eventually joining in himself as the one battery or so that was there was worthless. Never believed the story myself.

I know that there was an Indian Army cavalry unit that made a mounted charge in 1944. You can still find a copy of the article covering it in the online archives of the New York Times. I could swear I had a copy saved but its just another article about Vinegar Joe Stillwell.

~TS

[Mervyn Mitton]

British officers on combat duty did not - as a rule - have their dress words with them during WW2 - so fairly unlikely for hand to hand. The only sword surrendered in the War by a Western commander (to the best of my knowledge) came into our shop for repair. The South African campaign in Ethiopia was one of the finest during the war and has never had the recognition it deserves. We had approx. 28000 men who started in Capetown and drove through Africa picking-up men as they went. They quickly had the upper hand - despite the Italians having some 250000 men - and a captain in the King's African Rifles (Kenya) had the surprise of his life when he was summoned to the Commander in Chief of the Italian forces - The Duke of Aosta - who surrendered his sword to him. He was allowed to keep it - and the family left it in a garage to rot ! Despite being for such an important person it wasn't of very high quality - our silversmith repaired it and it is now back with the family in Natal.

Mervyn Mitton

[Bruce Pennington]

OLD THREAD UPDATE

 

With One Arm Cut Off by a Japanese Sword, Lt. George Cairns Charged Into Military History (warhistoryonline.com)

 

I'm attaching a Word document with a copy of the article in case the link goes dead over time.

 

WAR NEWS Lt Cairns Arm cut off by Japanese Officer sword.docx

[TracA]

Thank you, Bruce. Wow. What a story.

 

All the best,

 

Tracy