Medal bar with two SEHOs

[Claudio]

Dear forumites:

I saw this medal bar on Ebay and was wondering if the combination of two SEHO RK 2. with and without swords is possible. What do you think? The bar itself looks good, but I am a bit skeptical about the combination. The SEHO without swords appears to be a pre-WWI piece (Gold Medallion).

What do you think?

Ciao,

Claudio

[Daniel Krause]

Hi Claudio,

speaking for the combination,

it MIGHT be that this fellow from Altenburg got a peacetime SEHO knight 2nd from Meiningen or Coburg and added a homeland Altenburg SEHO 2nd with swords.

It can be, that in this case he would not have to return the peacetime one because it was a "foreign" award.

Best egards

Daniel

[saschaw]

Couldn't they be worn together with and without swords, if they came from the same duchy? In Baden this was indeed possible. Or would he just have gotten the swords awarded?!

[medalnet]

Couldn't they be worn together with and without swords, if they came from the same duchy? In Baden this was indeed possible. Or would he just have gotten the swords awarded?!

The saxons actually alowed that. Bars showing 2 of the same order are actually common.

[Dave Danner]

The only thing that is odd to me is the Duke Ernst Medal with "1914" Clasp. The vast majority of these went to civilians for war aid, especially medical care. Did military medical personnel also qualify? Or was he invalided out after receiving the EK2 and HSH3bX and then ended up in some sort of medical care job?

[Guest Rick Research]

I agree that the two Ernestine Ritters are from two different Duchies. Otherwise a peace class was returned when the same Duchy gave the class again with Xs.

There are at least three military holders of an -Altenburg Ernestine Ritter 2X and the Ernst Medal with "1914" bar, but this is a bar that would require searching all three Duchies on BOTH the Orders to see who might match up with the medal. Another problem would be that "peacetime" Orders WERE handed out during the war to rear area military personnel WITHOUT the War Effort year dates, so it is entirely possible that a pre-war piece that had been returned to the relevant Orders Chancery might have been handed out yet again during the war. So this may NOT be a peacetime Order incorrectly mounted ahead of the Hindenburg X, but rather an "unembellished" Order given during the war.

Have NOT transcribed those, since there is no way at all to tell a wartime "plain" from a peacetime "statute" version without the award document. When and if NON sword awards are transcribed-- and NOT by me since I do not have virtually all the peacetime years-- then THAT lucky person can list the "wartime peacetime" awards.

I have yet to venture into the -Meiningen rolls, but have found only a single case where two wartime Ernestines X were worn together-- a Ritter 1X and Ritter 2X by then plain old non-von Hans Obstfelder. I've got his WW2 ribbon bar, and Glenn turned up a Reichsheer photo showing him wearing both. Daniel has, I think, found one other case.

These are thus very very rare circumstances, particularly when the Duchies got cheap and made "combined" awards in the name of any two or even all three for one award.

The wartime Prussian Red Cross medal and the Ernst Medal indicate some sort of recipient who might have served both at the front and back home. It's a highly unusual bar, possibly unique, but one I see no problems with--

aside from the weeks of individual hunting that would be required to FIND the original wearer in ALL the rolls. When those of you lucky enough to be within visiting range of the Schloss get here to the island, you will SEE the Horrifying Reality that is the QUINTUPLE Ernestine rolls!