Award citation for a flieger

[Marcin L]

Hello.

Today I want to present my new document which is an award citation. What's interesting, it is a "Verwundeten Abzeichen im schwartz" for a flieger, signed by... look at the picture

Please tell me +anything+ that you know about this unit or a person, who have received the award (also the one who signed the document).

Best regards from Poland!

Here is the picture:

Edited November 10, 2006 by Marcin Lewoszewski

[Guest Rick Research]

Sorry but I cannot see anything on that tiny dark photograph.

A nice clear flat scan would be much better.

[Naxos]

nice award !

greetings, Hardy

Edited November 10, 2006 by Naxos

[VtwinVince]

Really nice and unusual document. It would be nice to find out about Flieger Barth. Is that a genuine von Hoeppner signature?

[Marcin L]

Vince - I belive so. It doesn't look like a facsimile. If you wish, tomorrow I can add a detailed picture of the signature.

Thank you Naxos

Edited November 10, 2006 by Marcin Lewoszewski

[Chris Boonzaier]

Nice !!!! Should be in my collection !!!!

A specal print for flying troops, I have never seen that.

[Chip]

Marcin,

Nice document. Compared to the other hand applied ink on the page, the v.Hoeppner signature looks like it might be printed. There is no age fading as there is with the penned ink.

I like the winged dagger motif. I have the photo album of a Saxon NCO pilot, who had virtually the same insignia painted on the fuselage of his plane. There is a picture of it in Greg VanWyngarden's new Osprey book, "Pfalz Scout Aces of World War I".

Chip

Edited November 11, 2006 by Chip

[Guest Rick Research]

I have looked in the casualty list from 1 May to 23 September 1918 and didn't find him there.

I keep complaining to Rick about having the WOUNDED German WW1 flyers listed alphabetically and not chronologically, but noooooooooooooo.

That is a late date for one of tehse, and I had assumed that Barth was wounded close to the issue date, but since the Wound Badges were first awarded in May 1918 retroactively, he could have been wounded at any time during the war and only got the award late if transferred out of whatever unit he had actually been wounded in previously. The fact that this was issued at the headquarters of aviation troops suggests to me that Private Barth was on the staff there at the time the document was made out bestowing this badge. He might have actually been wounded years earlier.

[Naxos]

I have looked in the casualty list from 1 May to 23 September 1918 and didn't find him there.

I keep complaining to Rick about having the WOUNDED German WW1 flyers listed alphabetically and not chronologically, but noooooooooooooo.

That is a late date for one of tehse, and I had assumed that Barth was wounded close to the issue date, but since the Wound Badges were first awarded in May 1918 retroactively, he could have been wounded at any time during the war and only got the award late if transferred out of whatever unit he had actually been wounded in previously. The fact that this was issued at the headquarters of aviation troops suggests to me that Private Barth was on the staff there at the time the document was made out bestowing this badge. He might have actually been wounded years earlier.

I doubt that it could have been years earlier - he would have been promoted since.

[Chip]

Rick,

You mentioned having some records of wounded fliers? I guess I did not know that such a list existed. I have the photos of one Unteroff. Werner Hertel from Jasta 40. He came to the unit in the spring of 1918 and was never credited with any victories, though he flew with Carl Degelow (last winner of the PlM), Willy Rosenstein and some other notable pilots. Evidently, some time in mid to late 1918, he was wounded as evidenced by a black wound badge he is suddenly wearing in the photos. Could this just be an acknowledgement of an earlier wound or do the records show him having been wounded while flying? Just curious.

Thanks,

Chip

[David Gregory]

Marcin,

Congratulations on a rare document.

The large image is even better than the others that you showed me!

David

[Chris Boonzaier]

A thought... isnt "Flieger" a rank for ANY private attached to a flying unit? i.e. "Flieger" as private equivelant, not as a description of his functions?

[Guest Rick Research]

I've gone through the non-fatal air casualties 1 April-30 September (thousands) and don't find Hertel, so presumably for a wound before he was a flyer.

"Flieger" was indeed the designation for any "imperial Luftwaffe" private and does NOT indicate flying status-- especially when the document was issued at Air Corps HQ.

I suspect he was an officer's B?rsche or similar orderly/clerk-- and thus would not have come up for promotion in his job category.

See the Reference Section pinned "Library" thread on references in general.

WW1 German air fatalities and wounded personnel can be found in:

"Casualties of the German Air Service 1914-1920: As Complete A List Possible Arranged Alphabetically and Chronologically," by Norman Franks, Frank Bailey, and Rick Duiven. Published in London by Grub Street , 1999. ISBN 1-902304-33-0

and now out of print and good luck finding one. (Always buy reference books when they come out!!!!)

Unfortunately, while the FATALITIES are both alphabetical (useful) and chronological, the WOUNDED are only chronological, which means hunting through the entire war to see if a single name is in there.