Kriegsmarine U-Boot Badge on Detlev's Update 07/08/05

[Guest Darrell]

Interesting Sub Badge that Detlev had on his site today. Anyone ever seen one of these? Unknown Maker?

[Gordon Williamson]

Its the Hymenn & Co. (L/53) style. Normally would expect this type to have a more robust pin. Michel has one of these Hymenn style badges with the horizontal needle pin.

This pin though is more like the type found on the hollow back 1930s version of the Imperial U-Boat Badge made by Steinhauer. Haven't seen this type of pin before on a solid Hymenn badge.

Hymenn did make hollow back U-Boat badges though.

[Guest Darrell]

Yeah it's interesting. There is another on Weitze's site with a slightly different setup:

[Gordon Williamson]

The type Weitze shows is the type I have seen before . I think this is the type that Michel has also. The Hymenn style also used this type hinge/hook set up on the hollow back version.

Yeah it's interesting. There is another on Weitze's site with a slightly different setup:

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[Michel]

Hello,

Picture of mine.

This type of U-Boot badge is rare but it is not my favorite, I don't like the design and the making.

Regards,

Michel

[Michel]

Picture 2

[Michel]

Picture 3

[Guest Darrell]

Michael,

Yours appears to be a match for Weizte's example. >What do you think about Detlev's version?

[Stogieman]

One of the things I have always found interesting is that the Germans changed the design so much from the WW1 style badge. Note that the bow of the boat is pointing to the left, opposite of the WW1 style. Also, the boat has substantially more detail than its' WW1 counterpart. Interessant, n'est-ce pas?

[cool]

Hi, IMO this U-Boat badge being sold by Detlev is a horrible fake.! Just look how it has been finished off at the top of the badge etc etc.!

[Stogieman]

I believe what you are seeing in Detlev's photo is the angle of the top of the badge due to the angle of the photograph itself. I cannot comment on the originality of this badge, my experience is in other areas. However having said this, the badge Detlev has seems to be a spot-on match to the examples shown by Gordon, Jacques and the one for sale on Weitze's site.

[Reini]

Is the propeller supposed to be missing from these badges?

Best

Kurt

[Gordon Williamson]

The badge itself is absolutely correct for a wartime original Hymmen style badge. The solid area around the neck, the lack of a propeller etc are all perfectly good characteristics of a wartime piece. The only anomaly is the flimsy pin which is a type personally I have only so far seen on the hollow back Imperial U-Boat Badges, but this style of pin was indeed used on real badges of the period. Its the combination of this type of pin with a solid backed badge which is anomalous.

The Hymmen style however, were produced in a wider range of variants than any other maker of the period ( tombak, zink, vertical pin, horizontal pin, hollow back etc).

The problem is that this type of badge was heavily reproduced by a certain US dealer in Arizona, and usually came with spurious Schwerin markings. This and the unusual design ( without propeller etc) has a lot of people thinking this type of badge is wrong. It is NOT. This style badge was most certainly manufactured during WW2 by Hymmen & Co and is even featured on a period propaganda postcard, all its unusual features being clearly visible.

[Michel]

U-bootkriegsabzeichen came in a small WWI group, same pin but the catch seems to be repaired.

[Gordon Williamson]

Very interesting Michel. Clearly this type of flimsy needle pin WAS used on original solid badges of the period as well as hollow-backs.

[Reini]

Gordon,

Thank you for the great info about the propeller! I was under the impression this was not correct.

Best

Kurt

[Guest Rick Research]

Simply to illustrate what is being talked about--

here is the identical type pin on the all but universally worn 1930s+ Steinhauer & L?ck 1918 badge:

[Gordon Williamson]

Here is a wartime "Tag der Wehrmacht" propaganda postcard with photo of the Hymenn style badge.

[Reini]

Very interesting! That Sub on the postcard is clearly without a propeller. Excellent reference!

Best

Kurt

[Gordon Williamson]

Heres a closer view of the image on the card.

The main features of a Hymenn style badge are quit evident on the wartime photo. The "blocked in" deck gun, the filled in area around the eagles neck, the lack of propeller, and also the raised ballast tanks. The Hymenn type were the only ones to represent the tanks realistically with a raised feature and not an indented line.

[Mike K]

Hi,

Just a word of caution when bringing S&L needle pins into this discussion. Attached is an image of a WW1 Marine Wound Badge which I understand to have been produces by S&L in the 50s or 60s. The reverse looks OK but the obverse has some serious problems with die deterioration. Note the hinge/pin/catch on this example. These can be bought for 20 or 30 Euro in all grades.

Regards

Mike K

Edited July 13, 2005 by Mike K