usairforce Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 photo1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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order_of_victory Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Wow I would say extremly rare Order of Victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 And a very beautiful design Kevin in Deva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Rietveld Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 first, i'am absolutely no expert with soviet Decorations. second, one thing i want to add. Funny that the ink on the documents looks like it was written yesterday and not 60 years ago. just my 2 centshaynau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 first, i'am absolutely no expert with soviet Decorations. second, one thing i want to add. Funny that the ink on the documents looks like it was written yesterday and not 60 years ago. just my 2 centshaynauYes, I'd like to hear from the more expert denizens of the forum. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lentiay Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Show a medallion close up and a surname of the gentleman. It - suspicious. Color патины very much confuses. I not the expert in полководческих - but it am similar awards to a fake. Show largly a medallion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usairforce Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 I feel this is a fake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lentiay Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I consider that this moulding. Unfortunately very few known awards with three rivets and to show the image of the original there is no opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Dear "usairforce",at least it is not a "Capral"-product: http://capral.webzone.ru/rf/nahim1/nahim1.htm for USD 200,- .For my taste the cover of the orders booklet looks a bit to luxurious for a 1945-issue .Such "deep blue" ink I have seen in other booklets and the entries make sense - somehow.I am also not an expert in полководческих.Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usairforce Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Thank you Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimZ Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 An uncommon variation of an uncommon order complete with booklet, the price of which should already be prohibitive. Sadly I do not have sufficient info on my end to make a call. Neither have I ever had the honour to hold or study such an award.But when hitting the books I can say that I do not like the height of the mintmark, the way serial number is engraved nor the colour of the patination. Having said that, not much literature to back umy call on this. But I would keep away from it nevertheless. If you didn't and it came at a hefty price then I hope someone says my judgement is wrong! I can sadly say it has even happened with a couple of items of mine as well !But as I always say.... no looking back and onto the next learning experience! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 (edited) But when hitting the books I can say that I do not like the height of the mintmark, the way serial number is engraved nor the colour of the patination. JimDear Jim,the patina seems for me not a problem. The rv. is perfect and the av. seems to have been polished frequently by the owner. A Nakhimov 2cl is made completly from silver and silver is getting such a very dark patina - if you don't polish the order from time to time. Look at the medals "XX-years-RKKA": You will find the same effects at the av. . Veterans DO polish their awards .The s/n. looks o.k. and for the height of the mintmark (it is a late variation!), that order is too rare to find out any rules, I think.I am not an expert - my two cents .Best regardsChristian Edited January 11, 2007 by Christian Zulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Recipient of Nakhimov 2cl?Dear "usairforce",you didn't tell us, who had been the recipient - Captain 2nd or 1st rank - of the order .Here is a link to a rather typical "copy" of a Nakhimov 2cl: http://www.militaryantiqueshop.com/view.php?id=745 .The "new" (criminal & bad made) website of Soviet Awards shows a rather similar Nakhimov 2cl: http://www.soviethonors.com/order-of-Nakhimov.htm (scan is really bad ).At the "other" website for Soviet Awards you can find also a rather similar av. of a Nakhimov 2c.There is a comprehensive book (Russian language) about the order: http://collectrussia.com/DISPITEMWINDOW.HTM?ITEM=12869 .Theory: Maybe your comrade got a orders booklet with a cover in better quality, due to the fact, that he had been a recipient of an Order of Nakhimov ?Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Andrew's "Mondvor" (GMIC-member) outstanding websiteDear "usairforce",two more points:- have a look at Andrew's excellent website (takes quite a time for uploading!) http://mondvor.narod.ru/ONahim.html- the engraving of the s/n. of Nakhimov 2cl s/n. 73 has should have been done by the same person, who has done the engraving of the s/n. at your Nakhimov. O.K., I am not a graphologist, but it the identity of number "7" is obvious .What makes me worry, is the fact, that the details at Admiral Nakhimov's face are not so crisp and clear, as shown at Andrew's website. Maybe our comrade had polished them away . That aspect can be clearly seen at the "hair-section" of Admiral Nakhimov. Coming back to the patina: You might achieve such dark borders of the patina, if you polish a lot (or if you apply fake patina ).Another point: Andrew shows a Nakhimov 2cl s/n. 747 without the 3 rivets .Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimZ Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 .....the patina seems for me not a problem.............The s/n. looks o.k. and for the height of the mintmark (it is a late variation!), that order is too rare to find out any rules, I think......Granted on the patina though I still do not like it. I disagree that the serial number looks ok even if you compare to Andrei's images...especially if you compare to Andrei's images! The depth of the serial number is not consistent with #245 and although this seems closer to the #747 please note different styles in the 7s! Again, "an uncommon variation of an uncommon order" My assessment is simple ...... does it convince me enough to buy it or not? (irrespective of price discussions). And here I find myself saying "no"! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Granted on the patina though I still do not like it. I disagree that the serial number looks ok even if you compare to Andrei's images...especially if you compare to Andrei's images! The depth of the serial number is not consistent with #245 and although this seems closer to the #747 please note different styles in the 7s! Again, "an uncommon variation of an uncommon order" My assessment is simple ...... does it convince me enough to buy it or not? (irrespective of price discussions). And here I find myself saying "no"! JimDear Jim,but the s/n. is 100 % ident to the style seen at Nakhimov 2cl s/n. 73 at Andrew's "Mondvor"-website. The depth of s/n. 73 is also not sooo extreme!What bothers me most, is the lack of detail in Nakhimov's face .But polishing can do a lot of harm, as you can see at the Glory-set at Dave's website.Best regards ChristianCavalier of Glory group of Senior Sergeant Sergei Nikolaievich Shishov from Dave's website http://www.forvalor.com/ : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Actually it is questionable if we can find any "style" in this digit 7. It is just two straight lines connected together. Every person who will practice with shtihel (the instrument used to engrave the numbers on the orders and medals, not sure about translation, but in Russian it called "штихель") for 30 min would be able to create this "style".However, in some cases you can clearly see unique style of one person who was numbering medals. You can actually see his handwriting pattern. I want to illustrate it with examples. Just check the shape of digit 2 on those numbers. This is what I call a style. And in this case it is almost impossible to fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 And here is a comparison of two medallions of Nahimov order. Check the shape of the leaves under the portrait, shape of the ears and other small details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I do see a big difference when I look closely. The hair, the mustache, the shoulder, the wreath, the ear, even the writings look thicker on the copy. Andrew, shall we only look at the details or also the color of the enamel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Color of the enamel is very problematic issue on the scans. In real order of course you will see the difference. But when you scan order or make a pictures with a digital camera, the color of enamel depends on the light intensity that comes from scanner or camera flash, the angle at which light falls to the surface of the enamel and other issues. Even enamel of the same order will look different under the different light conditions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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