Order of the White Falcon

[Ran]

Hi everybody

This is my first post here, I was away from collecting for a while and now I'm back and was told this is the

place to be. Lots of familiar faces here.

Anyway, the order I love the most is the Order of the White Falcon but I don't know too much about it.

The only reference I have is the Dave Danner amazing and helpful site.

So if possible I'd like to know some more details about this order, for example :

- How many awards issued from each class ( even just an estimate or just the known ones ) ?

- What's the difference between the commander 1st class cross and the commander cross ?

- Any images of of the medals ( any class in any variation will be highly appriciated).

- More reference sites/books

- Are there any variations ? In Mr. Danner's site it sais the Order was established on 1732 ! and it

was renewed on 1815 and so on . . . that's a lot of time, were the awards the same classes from

the start, do they look different with time ? I understand swords were added only on 1870.

( for example the order of the red eagle has lots of variations to the medals with time . . . )

- Anything else you can think of ( ribbon bars, medal bars with this order, known people who recieved it,

price estimates and so on . . . ).

- And most imporant, I love cased medals, does this order has cased medals, anybody has one or more

who can share a photo ?

Thank you very much, I really love this order.

Best regards,

Ran

[Guest Rick Research]

I have completed transcribing the White Falcon Order award rolls for World War One for awards with Swords. Those are probably 90% complete overall (some grades seem to be 100%) with the exception of awards of the Knight 2nd Class to NATIVES of Weimar, for which the years 1916 to 1918 are inexplicably missing. Misplaced, I hope.

A Commander 1st Class had a breast star, while the Commander was only the neck cross. They were given ALMOST entirely by status of the recipient.

From 1914-1919 the following numbers with Swords were awarded, according to the Rolls:

Grand Cross = 28

Commander 1st Class = 19

Commander 2nd class: "66" (1 is almost certainly a "no swords" mistake so in reality 65)

Knight 1st = 141

Knight 2nd = 588

Those numbers are probably almost complete EXCEPT for the Knight 2nd. Double that and say probably 1,000 Knights 2nd with Swords.

That's why they are so hard to find.

I will not mention the numbers of Gold and Silver Merit Crosses with swords, because I am such a wonderful person. Buy any you see. Once the roll is published later this year, mere mortals won't be able to afford them, ever again.

[Ran]

Hi Rick, thanks for the reply.

Lets see if I understand. The awards with swords were given only in wartime ( right ? ), if so are the years

1914-1919 the only years of war for this grand duchy ? I guess if swords were added since 1870 surely it was

for a "reason" but I'm not so good with history.

Anyway to know how many without swords where issued ? and were they issued from 1732 ?

Thanks again,

Ran

[Guest Rick Research]

They were given with swords in 1870-71, and a very few for colonial campaigns between then and the World War, but I don't have any information on numbers before WW1, or for the awards without swords.

[medalnet]

Come on guys, lets spice this post up with some nice pictures/welcome presents!

Edited January 19, 2007 by medalnet

[Ran]

OMG, cased Commander cross 2nd class ( right ? 1st class is breast and 2nd is neck cross ) with breast star.

So how do I know this is Commander cross and not Grand cross, just cause of the breast star for now, can

someone explain to me the difference between the awards ( the way they look ) themselves ?

And yes, please more pictures, that's too beautiful.

Medalnet, any chance to see more images of this amazing cased award ?

Best regards,

Ran

[medalnet]

1st class indicates the set (star to the commander cross grade).

Several saxon states choose to keep the grand cross and commander cross at the same size. Hence the grand-/commander cross would go both ways.

Saxe-Weimar used to issue a special size, a lot larger then the regular cross, for members of the royal family. Quite rare. There are some examples that recently reached the market from the famous Seymour and Ludvigsen collection.

We also know about crosses with larger crowns, yet are not sure if those are really special grand crosses or just commander crosses.

Here another example of this fine order to close the WWI grand-/commander cross series with swords:

[medalnet]

...and always important the reverse:

Yes, it has the: "Th. M?ller " mark on the reverse. Punched into the middle of the reverse. Again, PUNCHED:

Edited January 19, 2007 by medalnet

[medalnet]

Some of you have already seen images of the following bar, but here another prime example of a pure WWI White Falcon:

The knight 2nd class with swords is a earlier real silver one, not one of those late white metal silvered pieces.

Edited January 19, 2007 by medalnet

[Ran]

Thank you very much.

Things starting to get clear now :

Comander ( or commander 2nd class as some call it ) is the neck award. Comander 1st class would be the

same neck award but also a breast star ( with 4 rays ).

The difference between the Grand Cross and Commander Cross neck award is none in some cases and size

in other cases.

So, there is NO silver neck award ? only breast award in silver ( Knight 2nd class ) ? right ?

Thanks again,

Ran

[medalnet]

There is also a knight 1st class. Those exist in real gold and bronze gilt (late WWI), but I have only the reverse picture handy right now:

And of course the merit crosses affiliated to the order.

[Ran]

Thanks again, amazing images !

Keep 'em coming

Best regards,

Ran

[Laurence Strong]

Any chance of a nice closeup, that enamel work looks superb.

Hi Ran

Nice to hear from you again, alwyas wondered what happened to you - what with the situation in your neck of the woods and all....Good to see you OK

[Ran]

Hi Laurence

Been away from collecting ( put all my time and $$ on my new appartment ) but now I'm back.

Here all ok, trying to party as much as I can ( getting old though ).

How is your KVK collection ?

Best regards,

Ran

[joemiller]

That is a very nice medal. Once I learn how to upload pictures, I'll upload one of a White Falcon Merit Cross with Swords

[Wild Card]

Don?t forget the little guys!

[Ran]

Wild Card please explain what it is ? is it knight 2nd class ( looks like it ) but the "thing" that hold the crown

is differnet. Is it a miniature or something ? More info please

This is from Claudio collection, what this ribbon sais about the medal the person has ? and how can I know

some info about the ribbons would be great, I'm really clueless here. ( thanks again Claudio ! )

Thanks,

Ran

Edited January 20, 2007 by Ran

[Deruelle]

Hi Ran,

Your ribbon bar :

Iron cross 2nd class

Knight cross 2nd class with swords (silver here ) White Falcon of Saxe Weimar

Cross Saxe Meiningen.

It is an interresting combo.

The cross of Wild Card is in silver so a knight cross 2nd class.

Look at my medal bar with the same knight cross.

Regards

Christophe

[medalnet]

actually: "Wild Card"'s example is a minature of knight cross with swords. I assmue a 2nd class - "little guy"

[Guest Rick Research]

Claudio sold that ribbon bar?

First, it was made by the Godet Company in Berlin-- the style of the pin and catch is unique to them.

The combination could be an officer of Infantry Regiment 94 or 95. When the award rolls are all combined together, probably only a dozen or so had that triple combination, mostly Leutnants der Reserve. No Ernestine House Order suggests to me he was a native of Sachsen-Weimar rather than Meiningen.

[Riley1965]

This is a fascinating Order. How rare are they to find?

Doc

[medalnet]

I believe even a letter to Santa claus will not help

[Ran]

Thanks again guys.

Claudio didn't sell his ribbon bar he just showed it to me and I posted it.

Any chance of an image of the grand cross? Anybody has it ?

Best regards,

RAn

[Carol I]

A commander 1st class from the Coin Cabinet of the Dresden State Art Collections

[Ran]

Sweet, an example without swords.

What is 'Cross Saxe Meiningen' ( the third ribbon in Claudio's ribbon bar ) ? can someone post an image of that medal or a link ?

Also, if possible I'd really love to see a picture of the grand cross of the order of the White Falcon.

Thanks and best regards,

Ran

Edited January 21, 2007 by Ran