Hungary Hungarian Freedom Fighter's Asociation Cap Badge

[Gordon Craig]

Gents,

Here is an interesting cap badge that I picked up last week. It measures 41mm wide (1 9/16") and 42mm high (1 11/16"). The red star appears to have been done in fired enamel. Does anyone have a picture of this cap badge/cap in wear, or better yet, a picture of an actual cap with the cap badge in place?

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

And the reverse of the cap badge.

[Ulsterman]

wow!

[hunyadi]

Posted this one beofre - perhaps someone could say more about it (Zsolt?) This is the front of the medal. The reverse has an inscription pertaining to the "II National Congress" (1950?) From info on the web - this was when the assocaition turned into MHS and later MHSZ...I would love to learn more about it. Commemorative for sure, but who got one? Never have seen one since getting this.

[hunyadi]

the reverese - wouldnt it be great to get a uniform, cap and a tunic with a single ribbon loop to hang this beauty on?

[hunyadi]

It gets better - picked this one up this weekend. In 1948 this badge was created and allowed to be worn on the upper left breast pocket of the military uniform. This only lasted until 1950 when the organization was absorbed into MHS. Its a stunning one!

[hunyadi]

the reverse - this is also encountered often with a flet bakcing in the aproprite color for branch of serivce. Though this practice was completely custom and not in the military regs - but was tolerated

[Gordon Craig]

Gents,

At the on Sunday morning at the City Park Flea Market I discovered another smaller cap badge for the Hungarian Freedom Fighters Association. It is the exact same design as the previously pictured cap badge but is onlt 31mm wide by 32mm high. I've attached a picture showing the badges side-by-side for a size comparison. Still no idea what the cap looks likew that these badges were worn on. Perhaps Charles can get some photos through his meeting with the association.

Regards,

Gordon

[hunyadi]

Here is an interesting picture of the "second form" of the badge. Its apolice officer in an M1949 four pocket tunic. These would be replaced in 1951 for the more Soviet style two pocket tunic. As the association was disbanded and turned into the "MHS" in 1950 I would date this from about 1949-50. The shield type was apparently the "first form" and apparently used from 1947 (???? not 100% sure on that???)

[Ulsterman]

so-not a cap badge, but a quasi official proto partisan badge?

Nice.

[Gordon Craig]

Ulsterman,

Both of the badges I posted appear to be cap badges. Charles says he has seen a pocket badge such as he pictured with the normal double prongs on the back. Correct Charles? T

Thatns for the photo. It is a beaut of the badge in wear. I need to add one of those to go with my two cap badges. The breast badge could be worn on an early police uniform but where do I find one of those?

Regards,

Gordon

[hunyadi]

Hi Gordon -

Sorry - what I was trying to say is that I could see the prong(s) - in the photo of your post - the one I used to match with the one below - I can just make out a prong between the star and the rifle. If its pointed or not is too hard to tell. The scan does not show up the detail of the prong but its a comparison shot. Also - the bade could be worn by military memebers from 1948 on. As for a police uniform??? they seem to show up less often that military.

[Gordon Craig]

Charles,

Sorry. I should have shown both sides of the cap badges. The large and small cap badges are both new and have one prong broken off the rear so the front photo is somewhat decieving. For those others who read the post, and to remove ambiguity, here is a picture of the back of both the large and the small cap badge next to the back of a Combat Officers badge. The cap badges prongs are clearly pointed and meant to be pushed through a cap and bent over whereas the round ended prongs of the Combat badge are not meant to be bent but to simply slip into the thread loops of the tunic.

OOPS Forgot the picture. Here it is now.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited March 15, 2007 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

Gents,

Just when you think you have it all worked out, something new pops up! You got to love it? Earlier in this thread Charles posted what he described as the "first" type breast badge for the Association. He then posted a pictures and some confusion ensued as to what shape prongs on the back of a badge should look like. I attempted to address this point with my picture of what I considered two cap badges, because of the pointed prongs, in relationship to a breast badge with round ended prongs. Although not mentioned at the time, the point being that one would not want to wear sharp edges prongs next to the tunic material for fear of putting a hole in it. While I said this, at he time I had a paratroopers basic badge from the Kadar period that had sharp prongs on the back identical to a cap badge. Since I had only seen this one breast badge with these prongs I attributed this to an unusual badge that deserved further research should so information on the wear of such a badge as a breast badge arise.

Well, as of today's show in Eger it has arisen. I bought a breast badge today identical to the one Charles posted in posts #16 and 17 of this thread although it is not in as pristine a condition. It did have the advantage of have the cloth (green) background that Charles mentioned. It wasn't until I got home and took the price tag off the back and inspected the badge that I noticed a couple of things.

1-Normally breast badges like this that have coloured cloth behind them only have a thin layer of cloth. This badge has a piece of what apears to cardboard behind the badge with the cloth wrapped around it making it much thicker.

2-The badge is attached to the cloth and cardboard by pushing pointed prongs (much like cap badge prongs) through them both and then bending them over. From the appearance of the prongs they were never pushed through anything else to fasten the breast badge in place so possibly it was sewn on to a uniform using the green cloth. I can not take the backing off the badge without damaging it beyond repair to see if the prongs have been changed at some time in the past so that will have to remain a mystery. The upshot of all of this is "never say never". As a long time collector I should have learned that years ago. The best I can say is that in the majority of cases cap badges have sharp prongs and breast badges have rounded ended ones but there are always exceptions! The badge measures (without taking the backing into consideration) 43mm wide (1 10/16") and 47mm hig (1 13/16"). Here are some photos.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

The back of the badge. What looks like a rusty nail is actually a pin.

[Gordon Craig]

And here is a side view to try and illustrate the thickness of the backing material.

[Richard S]

Hello Gents,

I have here an interesting Medal from the "Magyar Szabads?gharcos Sz?vets?g". This Medal was given , according to the inscription, to a shooting contest in 1950.

[Gordon Craig]

Richard S,

Interesting medal. Thanks for adding to our fund of knowledge about this association. This could go on for a while!

Regards,

Gordon

[hunyadi]

1-Normally breast badges like this that have coloured cloth behind them only have a thin layer of cloth. This badge has a piece of what apears to cardboard behind the badge with the cloth wrapped around it making it much thicker.

2-The badge is attached to the cloth and cardboard by pushing pointed prongs (much like cap badge prongs) through them both and then bending them over. From the appearance of the prongs they were never pushed through anything else to fasten the breast badge in place so possibly it was sewn on to a uniform using the green cloth.

Though I cant post the photo - (Gordon you know where I got it from) I have this photo of an exact badge that has the sharp prongs on the back and a green felt backing. Also - on this badge it has the same style of more 'flat' torch / sword / wreath. Then there is the one I posted with no backing (but one could be easily added) and the prongs are more flat. So---- we have the early with a Type I (flat coat of arms and sharp priongs) and a Type II (more pronounced coat of arms and flat prongs) then we have the late type with sharp prongs and without sharp prongs...interesting for an association that was only around for a couple of years.

[Gordon Craig]

Charles,

I am a little confused by all the late and early terms. Seems as though you are indicating that all the badges posted are breast badges and none are cap badges. True? We will have to get together some time and compare all of the badges, pictures etc and perhaps I'll understand.

I did take a closer look at the badge I bought on Sunday and the picture of the one you posted. There is a definite difference in the material the backing plate of the badges are made of. Yours seems to be of aluminum and possibly stamped. Mine is of a thicker brass material and does not have the indentation around the edge of the back. I am not sure how the slightly curved surface was achieved. Great to have all these resources for comparison purposes.

Regards,

Gordon

[hunyadi]

Well - so far I have only heard from the one dealer that the smaller one is a cap badge - however - I have yet to see a photo of the uniform or a cap. (if they even existed at all) All that I have found is the 1948 regualtion that allowed the wear of the "badge" to be worn on the right upper pocket of the uniform. The regs do not give dimensions for the badge. It could be that the smaller badge may have been designed for civilain dress. At this point with all the evidence available I am saying that all of the larger badges (shield type and the wreath type with red star) are breast badges. The smaller one you have there may be a cap badge - might even be for a civilian to wear.

By "early" I mean the shield type and by late I mean the wreath with star type. Confused yet?

[Ulsterman]

so when exactly was the shield worn? 1946-49?

[hunyadi]

so when exactly was the shield worn? 1946-49?

From my research it has been assumed by the folks that I have conversed with that it was 1947-48 era and then at the end of 1948 beginning of 1949 that they went to the second style. Nothing in print yet so I cant say for certain.

[Gordon Craig]

Charles,

Thanks. That helps a lot and I am much less confused now. I am happy to consider them all breast badges until we can find a picture that shows this group really did have a uniform. I am just happy that between the two of us we seem to have corraled all the possible combinations of this badge in a relatively short space of time. Now all we have to do is wait a couple of weeks until the next show and we'll find another variation!

Cheers,

Gordon

[hunyadi]

And in my running around today I found this little gem to throw into the mix. It was in a Rakosi era box, the dealer had no idea what it was for - except that it was to the organization. Ribbon is interesting motiff. This one is similar to the type that I aquired last year. However my example (with the red ribbon) is 40mm in diameter and is "silver" in color. This particualr one is a pretty standard 35mm and is in bronze. Which now shows me at least that for the Second Party congress there were various grades to the medal that was handed out - but to whom and for what remains a mystery. I do not own the medal (but got permission for the photos) as the price was 100 X what I paid for my example...

Me: "So what is this medal for? Who got it and why?"

Dealer: "I dont know."

Me: "So how much do you want for it?"

Dealer: "Give me a $1000 for it....Its rare!"

Edited March 20, 2007 by hunyadi