Hungary Hungarian Firemen's Medals

[FireMedals]

Zsolt,

Thanks for posting these photos and descriptions. I've been trying to make sense of the Hungarian Fire award system for years. Now you have answered some of my questions and shown me photos of medals I didn't know existed. You can always learn something on this forum.

It appears several of the Fire Brigade medals are almost identical, with the difference appearing in the wording. In my notes on the Factory Fire Brigade medals, I had the following information. Any corrections would be appreciated.

... the word ??VES? on the front is "years", inscribed above ?V?LLALATI T?ZOLT?I SZOLG?LATERT?

(Workplace Fire Brigades); the reverse dated ?1958? and circumscribed ?BEL?GYMINISZT?RIUM T?ZOLT?S?G ORS?GOS

PARANCSNOKS?G (Interior Ministry National Fire Service); The medal was awarded by the Ministry of the Interior, the first award of the medal was for completion of 5 years? active duty in the auxiliary fire brigades of workplaces such as factories and offices.

I have a note that there was also a medal for Fire Police, similar to several of these styles, but with different lettering. Is that correct?

FireMedals

[hunyadi]

here's the latest from CD:

I suspect its 1980s issue-lighter, brassy alloy instead of the heavier "silver" type thinner medals.It's a twenty year service medal.

I note three or four different types of ribbons on these types of medal alone and then there's the professional firefighters' medals, the enameled ones from 1974....there's a lot to collect here.

But what do all the different grades mean: part time, full time, merit, long service, combinations, bravery...?

By the way, what is the book in picture #3 above?

Ulstermann -

Intersting. As I had informed you the ribbon on this one was the wrong type - but after a trip to the Military Muesum yesterday with the kids - I recognized the ribbon - its for the Sport Medal of 1947 (!!!) A rare addition to be sure

[Zsolt]

Ulstermann -

Intersting. As I had informed you the ribbon on this one was the wrong type - but after a trip to the Military Muesum yesterday with the kids - I recognized the ribbon - its for the Sport Medal of 1947 (!!!) A rare addition to be sure

Hi, Charles !

This ribbon similar to the ribbon of the Sports Merit Medal of the Hungarian Republic 1947, but in other material and size. I think, this is a ribbon for a sport tournament medal from the 1970's.

Zsolt

Edited April 7, 2007 by Zsolt

[hunyadi]

what would make the differnce - besides being rare? You mention the ribbon size? It was my impression that almost all of the ribbons are the same size. Help?

[Zsolt]

what would make the differnce - besides being rare? You mention the ribbon size? It was my impression that almost all of the ribbons are the same size. Help?

Hi !

The earlier (in the 40's, 50's years) the ribbons were bigger sizes. From the 60's years smaller. The ribbons for the race sport medals were the smallest. ( I hope, can You see in the photo the different).

Zsolt

[hunyadi]

Thanks! That was a feature I had not noticed before. Another piece of the puzzle - as I dont have many of pre-50's medals of the HUPR - can you post measurements of the ribbon width? (as the ribbon is folded and sometimes the dimensions of the tri-fold become obscure the best method is to measure the width of the ribbon - as if it had never been folded) Great information!

[hunyadi]

Well - I got out the calipers and got a selection of what I know to be from the 1949-56 period. Nearly all these ribbons are about 43-44mm in width - again I did not measure edges as the folding gets them out to be in various sizes! (I measured the 'raw' ribbon only) The post 1956 ribbons are about 40mm in width. For my confusion - the "Large Hungarian Medal Book" lists nearly every ribbon from 1946 to 1989 as a "40mm wide trifold"...once again - thanks Zsolt for your wealth of knowledge!

[Zsolt]

Exact figures, Charles. I measured 42-43 mm in the early ribbons, 40 mm in the later ribbons, and 37-38 mm in the sport ribbons.

In the "Large Hungarian Medal Book" there are a lot of mistake and inexactness.

Zsolt

Edited April 9, 2007 by Zsolt

[Gordon Craig]

Zsolt,

Thanks for your great explanation of the Fireman's medals. I would like to add one more comment here. The medal pictured in this post is numbered on the back with the number of the badge worn by the fireman it was presented to.

Regards,

Gordon

Good day everyone !

One short summary from the hungarian fireman medals between 1945-1990.:

1., Fire Preventation Department Medal. Awarded from 3. nov. 1951 - to 1956 in three grades:

- Silver Grade with Golden Strap

- Silver Grade

- Bronze Grade

[Gordon Craig]

FireMedals,

Since Zsolt hasn't answered I'll give it a go. There may be some difficulty in what is said in this thread because of language problems.

Basically, the medals we are dealing with here are for Professional Firemen and for Volunteer Firemen. They have nothing to do with men who may have been employed by firms to act as firemen. Don't be confused by Zsolt's use of the term "company". When he uses that term he appears to be talking about both Volunteer Firemen and Professional Firemen who were organized into "companies" at their individual locations. As you note, awarding the medals is done by the BM (short form) or Minisrty of the Interior. Many of the Firebrigade medals are the same except for the year on the back. You specifically mentioned 1958. Something we haven't covered yet but will get into later.

?VES? does translate as "years". V?LLALATI T?ZOLT?I SZOLG?LATERT? on the medals would refer to Professional Firemen not men who worked for a specific firm. ?NKENTES T?ZOLTOI SZOLG?LAT?RT (often abreviated to OT) on the medals refers to medals awarded to Volunteer Firemen. The first award was for five "V" years of service moving on to the others for continuous service beyond those 5 years. I have never come across any reference to a "Firepolice" in Hungary.

Ulsterman has asked about the term "Fire Prevention Service". In the English language material we were given at the Fireman's Museum the term "Fire Prevention" was used a lot to describe the work of the Fire Brigade when actually fighting fires. It is difficult to judge from this material if there is a separate group within the Fire Brigades who concentrate on Fire Prevention versus Fire Fighting or not but I doubt it. Fire Prevention usually forms a large part of the work done by Fire Brigades no matter what country you look at. There are two different types of collar insignia worn during the period we are studying and one of the English speaking firemen we talked to at the museum indicated that those with the firetruck on their collars were fire fighters while those wearing the other symbol were involved in fire prevention. As I said earlier, I am not sure this is a fact or just a misunderstanding in translating Hungarian to English. Something still to be worked out.

Regards,

Gordon

Zsolt,

Thanks for posting these photos and descriptions. I've been trying to make sense of the Hungarian Fire award system for years. Now you have answered some of my questions and shown me photos of medals I didn't know existed. You can always learn something on this forum.

It appears several of the Fire Brigade medals are almost identical, with the difference appearing in the wording. In my notes on the Factory Fire Brigade medals, I had the following information. Any corrections would be appreciated.

... the word ??VES? on the front is "years", inscribed above ?V?LLALATI T?ZOLT?I SZOLG?LATERT?

(Workplace Fire Brigades); the reverse dated ?1958? and circumscribed ?BEL?GYMINISZT?RIUM T?ZOLT?S?G ORS?GOS

PARANCSNOKS?G (Interior Ministry National Fire Service); The medal was awarded by the Ministry of the Interior, the first award of the medal was for completion of 5 years? active duty in the auxiliary fire brigades of workplaces such as factories and offices.

I have a note that there was also a medal for Fire Police, similar to several of these styles, but with different lettering. Is that correct?

FireMedals

[Gordon Craig]

Company Fireman Service Medal from 1974 up to 1977.

With trifold ribbon.

- After 5 years

- After 10 years

- After 15 years

- After 20 years

- After 30 years (with bronze wreath)

- After 40 years (with silver wreath)

- After 50 years (with gold wreath)

I have something to add here. A Bronze medal with wreath for the Volunteer Firemen for the 1974 to 1990 period. I'll post the obverse and the reverse as both differ from the 1958 version. The 30, 40 and 50 year medals were dated 1974 on the reverse. I have not seen a medal in the 5 to 20 year series dated 1974. I do not own this medal. This is a file picture from my archives. I do own a Bronze medal with wreath for the Professional Fireman.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited April 10, 2007 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

The reverse.

[Zsolt]

Familiar photos...

[Gordon Craig]

Zsolt,

Thanks for reminding me who the photos belong to. I had put your photo in my archives but neglected to keep track of where I had found it or I would have advised in the post where it came from. Thanks for your understanding.

Here is a picture of the 1974 30 year Bronze Medal with Wreath for a Professional Firefighter from my collection.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

The reverse of the Professional Firefighters 1974 30 Year medal with Bronze Wreath.

[Zsolt]

Zsolt,

Thanks for reminding me who the photos belong to. I had put your photo in my archives but neglected to keep track of where I had found it or I would have advised in the post where it came from. Thanks for your understanding.

No problem, Gordon!

(Maybe one barter? ?nk?ntes for V?llalati? )

[Gordon Craig]

Zsolt,

I was sure I had replied to your post earlier today buit I don't see it in this thread. It will be next week before I will know if we have a trade or not. I'll know by next Tuesday.

Regards,

Gordon

[Zsolt]

Zsolt,

I was sure I had replied to your post earlier today buit I don't see it in this thread. It will be next week before I will know if we have a trade or not. I'll know by next Tuesday.

Regards,

Gordon

O.K. !

[Gordon Craig]

Zsolt,

Sorry but I do not have a medal to trade. I was waiting to receive another 30 year Bronze 1974 Fireman's medal and not sure if it was for a Volunteer Fireman or a Professional Fireman. Turns out it was the one I do not have so I will be keeping boh of them.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Here are some photos of a cased Bronze Fire Prevention Department Medal of 1956-35mm diametre.

[Gordon Craig]

The bottom of the box.

[Gordon Craig]

The interior of the box showing the medal and the ribbon bar ribbon.

[hunyadi]

Here is one that I got last week - it has a unique...

[hunyadi]

repair.... Using a cap badge from the Munkasor...

[Gordon Craig]

Charles,

That is kind of neat and very enterprising on someones part.

Cheers,

Gordon