Luxembourg Netherlands Order of Oranje-Nassau

[Herr General]

Herr General,

Very cool bar (WW1). A diplomat perhaps?

Jacky,

Thanks for the info.

It could be a diplomat who was a soldier during ww1, but it is also possible that it was from a Police officer (Police could receive the Mobilisation Medal) in a large city where foreign state visits took place.

[DutchBoy]

Yes, I like the police man theory. Either way, very interesting.

[Jacky]

This bar had been discussed on this site, to great length and a lot of theories also.

I can't find the link immediately, but I loved this bar and the discussions!

Kind regards,

Jacky

[ErikMuller]

Magnificent items Matthijs, congratulation

Out of curiosity: Whenever I encounter this order for sale at various dealers the badge is mostly (always?) in silvergilt, and judging from these pictures yours seem to be silvergilt as well.

Was the badge ever awarded in real gold? And if yes, do you know when it changed?

/Mike

Never noticed that! Just looked at my pieces. My commander's grade was awarded in 1934 and it's also silvergilded. (sorry no pics, my scanner is already boxed, awaiting moving :-)

[Great Dane]

Apparently gold versions do exist. At least according to this eBay seller:

eBay Oranje-Nassau order

The color does seem a little light in my opinion - could it be silvergilt instead of gold?

Here is one of his pictures for future reference:

/Mike

[DutchBoy]

Hi Mike,

I think the seller is saying that only some parts are gold ("center and points").

I think there are very few orders out there from any country TODAY that would be solid gold. Several British orders were initially solid gold, but were later switched to gold-plated silver (e.g. Order of the Bath, D.S.O., and others). The Order of Canada was initially solid gold, but they switched very quickly to silver-gilt as well. I think the same applies to German States pieces. That's an AWFUL lot of gold to tie up in one piece! The temptation is simply to melt the piece down for the gold content (which happens alot).

The higher Dutch orders (Militaire Willemsorde, Nederlandse Leeuw, Gouden Leeuw van Nassau) are similarly silver-gilt. In fact, some lower grade MWO's are not even silver but an alloy I've been told.

Apparently gold versions do exist. At least according to this eBay seller:

eBay Oranje-Nassau order

The color does seem a little light in my opinion - could it be silvergilt instead of gold?

Here is one of his pictures for future reference:

/Mike

Edited April 11, 2007 by DutchBoy

[Great Dane]

He does claim that 'center and points are gold', but while I can understand that the centerpiece (being a separate piece) can be gold, how can the points be gold and the rest of the order not gold? Aren't the points an integrated part of the 'body'?

The reason I started this discussion is that the Danish Order of Dannebrog was/is awarded in solid gold, but due to the fact that orders awarded to foreign recipients often wasn't returned after the death of the recipient they started to make it in silvergilt to foreigners (around 1910-20).

I was interested to know if the same pattern could be seen with other orders...

/Mike

[DutchBoy]

Mike, you're right what he says about the points...that makes little sense otherwise. The Dannebrog is an amazing order...way older and much more prestigious than this Dutch one! My friend has a Dannebrog 2nd class...fantastic order! It deserves to still be issued in solid gold!

[ErikMuller]

Mike, you're right what he says about the points...that makes little sense otherwise. The Dannebrog is an amazing order...way older and much more prestigious than this Dutch one! My friend has a Dannebrog 2nd class...fantastic order! It deserves to still be issued in solid gold!

The Dannebrog is also awarded in silvergilt when awarded to foreigners. I've got two knight 1st class crosses, one awarded to a Norwegian Colonel and one to a Dutch ambassy employe. Both are silvergilt.

[Herr General]

Hi Erik, Could you show us some of your collection when you are settled in again ?

[DutchBoy]

Here a huge British group to an Air Chief Marshal, including the order of Oranje-Nassau 2nd class with swords....That is one amazing group! For sale right now in the latest Spink auction, estimate GBP 150,000 - 180,000.

eBay Spink auction

[Jacky]

Yes that's a very remarkably group!!

Air Chief Marshal Sir Basil Edward Embry

GCB KBE DSO & Three Bars DFC AFC RAF

Even his abreviations need 2 rows,

his medalbar is surely also in 2 parts, but can't be seen on this picture.

What are the clasps on his stars??

Kind regards,

Jacky

[DutchBoy]

His 1939-1945 Star has the "Battle of Britain" bar, and the Air Crew Europe star has the "France and Germany" bar. Even though there was a separate "France and Germany" star, if you already had one specific star, you'd only get a bar instead of the second star medal. Although there were 8 star medals for WW2, the maximum anyone could earn was 5 because of this "bar instead of star" rule.

p.s. The listing mentions that the Dutch insignia are silver-gilt (as per our discussion above), so we know that about WW2 era pieces at least.

[mravery]

Hi guys,

I had posted this on another thread.. and was asked to post it here to answer some questions...

Here is the military version.. in solid gold.... the sword blades are silver plated to add contrast.

Cheers

Mark

[mravery]

Reverse

[DutchBoy]

Excellent piece! I didn't think there were any solid gold pieces out there, but I stand corrected!

[Riley1965]

What is the significance of the Palm attachment on the IGS '08?

Doc

[Jacky]

Mentioned in Despatched (MiD)

those cited for bravery or excellent service/behavior are allowed to wear the oak-leave on the corresponding medal!

Thus WW2 would wear it on either the defence medal or the war medal, it's just for what and when someone is cited.

Kind regards,

Jacky

p.s. Wiki: MiD

[mravery]

Hey Guys,

I need an expert's advice.... in another thread I have going (in this same group) is called Danish General Anders Gjedde Nyholm

Nyholm was awarded the Oranje commanders 1st class..... but I'm curious as to whether it would be with out without swords....

Can someone take a look at that thread and let me know which it might be ?

Cheers and thanks !

Mark

[mravery]

Hello Boys,

Here is a new 'toy' that arrived today.... for my Nyholm display.... Silver gilt but I think the suspension ring, loop, ball tips and lion are in gold... Is this possible ??

This is the first Commander's award with swords that I have seen. Were these required to be returned to the government after the recipients death ?

Edited November 29, 2007 by mravery

[mravery]

Here is the reverse.. I really like the detail under the blue enamel. A few chips here and there in the white which im assuming happens when it is worn and bounces off the tunic buttons.

[mravery]

I think this is a maker's stamp.. any thoughts ?

By the looks.. I kind of think this is an early piece but a that is just a guess.

[JBFloyd]

A simple officer's cross, with swords. But...

[JBFloyd]

...the documentation makes it of special interest to me.

[JBFloyd]

Capt Aly also received the Air Force Commendation Medal for this action. He had earlier earned an Air Medal in the South Pacific and another as a pilot in the Berlin Airlift.