Soviet "Otlichnik" (Excellence) badges

[Guest Sniper_RKKA]

Gentlemen,

Having spent most of my life in bakeries, when this came along, I just had to...

Regards,

Wild Card

This is a very good badge.

Best regards, Oleg.

[Danny]

Gentlemen,

Having spent most of my life in bakeries, when this came along, I just had to...

Regards,

Wild Card

Can you post the reverse? What are the measurements? The reason I am asking is that there are 5 variations to this badge and some are not the same size as others. In looking at yours, it looks like a variation 2 since the chimney of the bakery is rounded and not in an angle.

[Wild Card]

Thank you Oleg, this piece, as I said, has a bit of a personal connection.

Danny, I'm having a tough time doing this (reverse) with my scanner, I'm working on it... if this continues, I'll turn to the camera. Please bear with me.

Wild Card

[Guest Rick Research]

Hint: I have discovered that if you very gently lower the lid of the scanner onto a screwback badge, in far enough so you can tweak it on "preview" with the end of a pencil, it will "stand up" on the screw and make a full on scan. By noodging it, you can get it aligned so the final view is straight up and down N-E-S-W.

Tricky, time consuming, but can be done.

I've also just discovered doing this that in scanning the reverse of serial numbered badge or decoration , if you SCAN them sideways, the shadow from the moving scanning thing highlights the entire number rather than obscuring it in shadows. THEN you flip the scan right side up.

Slow, but still learning!

[Wild Card]

Hint: I have discovered that if you very gently lower the lid of the scanner onto a screwback badge, in far enough so you can tweak it on "preview" with the end of a pencil, it will "stand up" on the screw and make a full on scan. By noodging it, you can get it aligned so the final view is straight up and down N-E-S-W.

Tricky, time consuming, but can be done.

I've also just discovered doing this that in scanning the reverse of serial numbered badge or decoration , if you SCAN them sideways, the shadow from the moving scanning thing highlights the entire number rather than obscuring it in shadows. THEN you flip the scan right side up.

Slow, but still learning!

Thanks for the advice, Rick; but keep in mind that if you open your Webster?s to the word ?klutz?, you are going to see my college graduation picture (I?ve got to get a new one to them). I am, however, going to work on your system for future emergencies. I do know that this would all be a lot easier if my scanner had one of those two part do-hicky lid hinges on it.

Thanks again,

Wild Card

[Wild Card]

Hi Danny,

Well, here?s what I?ve got - a micrometer with a dead battery! So going manually, I am coming up with dimensions of 36.5 mm x 45 mm. Below are a couple of pictures which I hope are helpful.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Danny]

OK with the close up of the baker's oven, it isn't a variation 2. Or is it? In your first image it seemed that the oven chimney was round but in your close-up it has an angle. Can you confirm that please? Based on your measurements, it could be a variation 3 but the wheat and the oven aren't quite what they should be. Is that patina in the front of the oven or is it darkness due to lighting?

[Guest Rick Research]

Oddly enough, my very first "Excellent" badges (I swear people were still wandering through Checkpoint Charilie in slippers from East Berlin at the time) were

Baker (perhaps because I eat Wild's product every single day) and Pontooneer-- BOTH of which I was later told were fakes. I can only measure with a mm ruler, for what that's worth: 46mm high X 38 mm wide on the baker and 48 mm high X 38 mm wide on the Pontooneer.

Maybe these will be instructive if their deficiencies can be discussed point by point. I was scared off for life after this first and last dabbling!

[attachmentid=18003][attachmentid=18004]

[attachmentid=18005][attachmentid=18006]

Also got stung by fake Partisan medals etc all at the same time.

[Wild Card]

Hi Rick,

Comparing my badge with your scan, I do see some subtle differences - we?ll have to do a ?side by side? when we manage to get together. I do think, however, for two reasons that you were very wise to have held on to yours though.

First, as you know, these excellence badges went through many changes over the years; so many, that I gave up long ago trying to keep them all sorted out. The second reason is that you obviously got yours before The Wall came down. Now really, was there enough of a demand for these things in the pre ?wall down? days to justify the production of fakes? Lenins and Red Banners, sure, Red Stars, probably, but Excellent Baker? I would honestly like to hear a case for it (anyone?).

Incidentally, thanks for the business and the plug.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Danny]

Guys, another good way to tell is by the profile of the badge. I also have a few WW2 "Excellent" badges but not the baker, or cook, submariner etc... as they are quite expensive now and so commonly faked. But I agree, would these badges have already begun being faked in the early 90's? Anything is possible I guess.

Rick, I'll have a closer look at both your badges when I get home from work. I have a superb book that deals with just these "Otlichnik" WW2 badges.

[Guest Sniper_RKKA]

Hello!

Yes, you are right, copies of these signs began to appear in 90 years.

In photos Rick Research copies of poor quality are submitted, nevertheless, secondhand dealers have found time to alter him the screw since many all over again look at the screw.

By the way, what prices at you on these signs? At us to the most badge it is familiar is baker, costsabout 300-350 dollars.

With the best regards, Oleg.

[Danny]

Rick

Your baker's badge is definitely bad. Just after a quick examination, the hammer and sickle are off what they should be, the wheat branches are also off, the top portion of the badge is wrong. Yours resembles the closest to a variation 4.

Pontooner is confirmed bad as well. Sickle is off, top portion of the badge is wrong, anchor isn't cast correctly, your measurements are off what they should be. they are close, but off. These two badges look like cast fakes.

[Danny]

Hello!

Yes, you are right, copies of these signs began to appear in 90 years.

In photos Rick Research copies of poor quality are submitted, nevertheless, secondhand dealers have found time to alter him the screw since many all over again look at the screw.

By the way, what prices at you on these signs? At us to the most badge it is familiar is baker, costsabout 300-350 dollars.

With the best regards, Oleg.

Hello and welcome to the forum Oleg.

A baker's badge can be purchased here for about $150 USD. A pontooner badge for $140 USD. Hope this helps.

[Bryan]

Here are some new badges in my collection!

Artillery man badge

Machine gunner badge

Scout badge

Sniper badge

[Hauptmann]

Hi all,

Here's my one and only. Hoping for more info. Keep in mind that I did these pics with my digital camera way back when before I'd gotten my "Epson" scanner. I'll be happy to do new scans if needed... just let me know. Also, the rectangular discoloration on the back is from where the sales sticker was originally. Oh how I wish when it's possible to put on a tie tag that sellers would not use stickers.

Without further ado:

I've got all of $6 in this badge from back in the day... so if fake I'm not going to go jump off the water tower. Hoping it's original... sure looks salty enough. But any and all comments welcome as I'd love to know one way or the other.

Many thanks!

Dan :cheers:

[oleg]

Dan,

This is fake.

[Hauptmann]

Okay, finally got time to catch up with some of my scanning backlog... so going to give these a try... good or bad? I'm not holding my breath but sure would be nice if I'd actually come up with a real one sooner or later. Thing is, I only get them if they come my way as a gift or if I find them for dirt cheap. This is one series of badges I'm definitely not going to blow a ton of money on as more often than not they seem to turn out to be fakes.

Anyhow, here goes.

First off... a Scout:

[Hauptmann]

Next, a Submariner:

As always I'm very grateful for any and all comments. If they turn out to be bad I don't have much in them... in fact I think the Scout was a gift way back when but honestly I can't remember for sure at the moment... a bit on the tired side... been a long hard day.

Will keep my fingers crossed but again not holding my breath.

Many thanks!

Dan :cheers:

[oleg]

Both are fake.

[Hauptmann]

Thaks Oleg... kinda figured. Will keep trying.

Dan :cheers:

[JimZ]

Yikes Dan!!! One would have hoped that it would be third time lucky.

Never collected these. Never studied them. Wish I did, but these days, the less common ones seem to cost too much!

Jim :cheers:

[Hauptmann]

This is why even Rick wouldn't get into them since his first outing after the wall came down ended with them being fakes. I simply won't fool with them unless they're free or I get them for dirt. Just not worth the risk of spending much and having yet another fake for the dollars spent.

I have a feeling these are like much of the Third Reich items out there... phony as the day is long and seems they made shiploads of them and they've been churning them out for Lord only knows how long. It's very frustrating. Plus, as you say some of them have just gone out of sight... and again there are very few people I'd buy one from trusting absolutely that they are correct... especially at those prices I'd want an ironclad guarantee of authenticity or full money back return privileges for life. To me, just not worth it.

At least these look nice in a display, are aged to look the period and for what I have in them I can't complain.

Again here's hoping some day I'll end up with a real one, but as they are not a main area of focus for me it's not a big if these are all I end up with. Not losing any sleep over them, that's for sure.

Sad that such things are out there. Again I've nothing against copies for say reenactors who don't want to see originals lost or damaged in field use. But just make them look brand new, with like that really shiny gold color or something, and have them marked clearly as copies on the reverse in such a way that it cannot be removed without ruining the piece. These just look far too convincing and if they can fool folks who have been involved in the hobby as long and Rick and myself then God help the newbies with far, far less experience in such things.

Scary!

Dan :cheers:

[JimZ]

As opposed to you Dan, I have a severe dislike for copies and "filler" pieces particularly when they are made to fool people. The reason why I never got into them was that they seemd to be less abundant and available then ODMs, and there was no "red bible" equivalent for them either. Yes..the "red bible" has done more to help Soviet ODM collectors than any other publication, way back when the prices were cheaper.

I missed the boat on these....even though as you say, its probably a good thing that I did.

One other thing Dan...Otlichnik badges are pretty much in demand so if they're selling dirt cheap, it might already be an indicator that something is wrong with them!!

[meyerse]

another ''nickled'' one. I like these but there are so many fakes! Many in this thread are quite suspect and I only buy if I can get a good picture of the price is super cheap. This one was purchased for less than the common price of a fake but was offered as a hat badge with a bad description.

[oleg]

This one looks good, but I need back picture.