WW1 Victory Medals General Discussion

[Thomas Symmonds]

I have had some fun chasing down the miniature versions of the various Vic Medals. I have a Belgium and French mini on their way to me at present, and I have finally tracked down an affordable Greek full size medal - to my mind the more stunning clasp set up of the lot. I shall post them when they arrive.

regards
Thomas

Edited February 17, 2013 by IrishGunner

[RobW]

I have had some fun chasing down the miniature versions of the various Vic Medals. I have a Belgium and French mini on their way to me at present...

regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

You will find great variety even among the vic mini's.

For your awareness both the Belgian and French vic mini's were produced in a number of sizes including:

* Belgian - 12, 13.5 and 17 mm.

* French - 11, 13, and 17 mm.

In addition to the size variations they were produced in a number of different finishes, with some of the French mini's also having various makers and mint marks on the reverse.

Regards,

Rob

Edited May 1, 2010 by RobW

[Thomas Symmonds]

The next two miniatures arrived on Friday too, and they are SMALL ! Rob, your quote, " For your awareness both the Belgian and French vic mini's were produced in a number of sizes including: * Belgian - 12, 13.5 and 17 mm. * French - 11, 13, and 17 mm. " suddenly rang very true. My French mini Vic is very small - 11mm and the Belgium mini Vic is 13.5mm These "small" miniatures seem really strange to me, as next to any other "normal" miniature they look quite odd. And on a bar I would imagine that they would all but disappear. These miniatures don't have any maker's marks though - unfortunately.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Thomas Symmonds

[RobW]

The next two miniatures arrived on Friday too, and they are SMALL ! Rob, your quote, " For your awareness both the Belgian and French vic mini's were produced in a number of sizes including: * Belgian - 12, 13.5 and 17 mm. * French - 11, 13, and 17 mm. " suddenly rang very true. My French mini Vic is very small - 11mm and the Belgium mini Vic is 13.5mm. These "small" miniatures seem really strange to me, as next to any other "normal" miniature they look quite odd. And on a bar I would imagine that they would all but disappear. These miniatures don't have any maker's marks though - unfortunately.

Thomas,

Those collectors that generally confine themselves to the British and other Commonwealth awards, are used to seeing miniatures in a consistent size around 18mm.

It is only when you start collecting such a varied series of medals, like the vics, that were produced by a large number of countries, including many from the European continent, that you become aware of the different sizes of mini's. The Belgians and French produced a wide variety of mini awards in different sizes and it was not just limited to the vic. In addition those mini's produced by Italy and Portugal are also seen in a variety of sizes.

By the same token there are numerous different examples of the British and US vic mini with minor detail changes depending on the manufacturer and time of production so variety abounds.

I think that it is this cosmopolitan nature of the vic series which makes it such an interesting and diverse field of collecting in its own right. Country specific but international in flavour.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

Well, it's been awhile and the thread is starting to get quiet. I figure either people are losing interest or running out of new material to post.

Do we want to venture into the States and local issue VIC's here or should we start a new and separate thread?

Tim

Oregon State issue:

Hey Tim,

I think that while these separate US state vics are interesting they should be in their own separate thread.

Regards,

Rob

[Tim B]

Hi Rob,

That's fine.

Well, if there is enough interest and someone wants to start one, I will contribute.

Tim

[RobW]

Hi Rob,

That's fine.

Well, if there is enough interest and someone wants to start one, I will contribute.

Tim

Tim,

I would also suggest that there should be enough interest in such a newer thread. It could also include those victory type medals that have been seen from the Phillipines Constabulary and National Guard, that seem to be very rare and continually confused with the interallied victory medal series.

Regards,

Rob

[Tim B]

Rob,

Well, I doubt there will be much, if any interest, considering the low number of actual participants in this thread.

I do disagree with adding any Philippines Constabulary and National Guard items into US States and local issue VIC's though, as these items do not belong together at all. Laslo included them, as a side note, on official VIC's but clearly showed they had nothing really to do with the Interallied Victory Medal. Only appears that everyone wanted a medal for something, regardless of whether or not they actually participated in anything. Same can be said about the Chinese version IMO, as it's not an accepted official VIC.

Then again, the thread Title is: "WW1 Victory Medals of the World" and under that, could/should include all items relating to WW1 VIC's, not just the "Interallied" medals.

Anyway,

Tim

Edited June 15, 2010 by Tim B

[RobW]

Rob,

Well, I doubt there will be much, if any interest, considering the low number of actual participants in this thread.

I do disagree with adding any Phillipines Constabulary and National Guard items into US States and local issue VIC's though, as these items do not belong together at all. Laslo included them, as a side note, on official VIC's but clearly showed they had nothing really to do with the Interallied Victory Medal. Only appears that everyone wanted a medal for something, regardless of whether or not they actually participated in anything. Same can be said about the Chinese version IMO, as it's not an accepted official VIC.

Then again, the thread Title is: "WW1 Victory Medals of the World" and under that, could/should include all items relating to WW1 VIC's, not just the "Interallied" medals.

Anyway,

Tim

Hey Tim,

I would agree that there does seem to be only a few active participants in this thread. It is surprising given the international flavour of the vic series.

I agree that the Phillipine items are not official vics but have gained some form of association with the interallied vic series, especially from US collectors from what I have seen. Other than Alex Laslo's book and a corresponding OMSA article about the subject there appears little information about them in the wider collecting community. Even the OMSA publication on Phillipine medals has little detail with Laslo's reference containing much more information.

I would also agree that the Chinese commemorative medal is often incorrectly associated with the vic series. If anything there should be more reference to the British War Medal in bronze that was awarded to those chinese members of the Labour Corps (CLC). That is the only 'official' recognition these members of the CLC received as they were deemed not eligible for the vic. They are not that prevalent, are hard to obtain in good condition, and are plagued by many copies and outright fakes. I consider having such an example as illustrative of the Chinese effort and contribution during the war, as they provided many, many personnel for service in the Labour Corps, and it is also probable why China was added to the reverse of the US vic.

In addition to those medals there is also the case of the Panama Medal for Solidarity that was awarded following the war. Alec Purves' book mentions that they were only awarded on a very limited scale and are again immediately identified and associated with the vic series.

Now that you mention it I would agree that it is probably a good idea to just include all the items in this thread, including the US state awards, Phillipine items and any other associated awards including that from Panama. That way all the pieces that people can share, relating to this topic, are in the one spot.

If anything it may create some more discussion. Time will tell.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

Question is Alex Laslo still alive and if so, does he have a web site.

Hello JM and others,

As mentioned by Kevin from Deva, Alex Laslo passed away on 1 March 2004 after a short illness. Additional details are provided in the May-June 2004 Journal of the Orders and Medals Society of America (Volume 55, Number 3).

This forum thread is as good a place as any to continue the promulgation of new information about the vic series as it comes to light.

Regards,

Rob

Edited June 29, 2010 by RobW

[Tim B]

Thomas,

The thread is Victory Medals in general but, you're correct that there seems to be much more available in single medals than in groups. I think the only exception to that is the British bars, perhaps as the medals were named and people didn't want to separate them.

There are some really nice Romanian groups on the market as well, never cheap but often loaded with a variety of decent conditioned awards. I hope they do not get broken up if that is what happened to other like items. Most of the US VIC's I see are single pieces, or in a group of single items and you can never be 100% if the grouping is original to each other. Personally, I like the singles but have some small bars as well.

Anyway, post what you got, I'm sure everybody here would love to see someone else's stuff for a change!

Rob,

As always, beautiful!!

Tim

Edited July 13, 2010 by Tim B

[johnnymac]

To all, I need to find

The "Gleim Medal Letters 1971-1997", Extracts D35 & D36 and these two pages 88-89.

Would someone please post these.

Thanks, JohnnyMac (JM)

[johnnymac]

To all, I need to find

The "Gleim Medal Letters 1971-1997", Extracts D35 & D36 and these two pages 88-89.

Would someone please post these.

Thanks, JohnnyMac (JM)

My son was able to find my book in storage boxes at his home,

Thanks (JM)

[Thomas Symmonds]

Hello Rob -

Thanks for showing those non-British groups. This thread has piqued my interest in these types of groups and I find myself now actively searching for them. Miniature groups mostly - partly because of cost, but mainly because I have found that I enjoy the mini more - I marvel at the sometimes intricate detail, and probably due to the cost factor too if I am honest

You have mentioned that you have help from friends in finding these gems, but are there any sites or auction houses that you could recommend to watch?

Please post some more of your groups if possible. I would be keen to see them.

regards

Thomas

[RobW]

Hello Rob -

Thanks for showing those non-British groups. This thread has piqued my interest in these types of groups and I find myself now actively searching for them. Miniature groups mostly - partly because of cost, but mainly because I have found that I enjoy the mini more - I marvel at the sometimes intricate detail, and probably due to the cost factor too if I am honest.

You have mentioned that you have help from friends in finding these gems, but are there any sites or auction houses that you could recommend to watch?

regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

I am always impressed at the level of craftsmanship displayed in mini medals of the Great War era, and that is something that I don't think is seen in mini's of the current era. Despite there being particularly small versions of the same mini, as seen in some French vic mini's of 11mm and 13mm there is still a lot of detail (posts #151-153). Even some of the Italian mini groups are very nicely finished in very minute detail (posts #110-112). In that regard they are worth collecting and are somewhat cheaper than their full size cousins.

Finding these groups, either in mini form or full-size is somewhat an exercise in patience and being able to spot a good group when it should come up. Most of my groups have been obtained from fellow collectors or private sales. Apart from some more well known European auction houses, Ebay in its many guises is also a place where interesting items are known to pop up randomly, especially in France and Belgium.

Most of my more interesting items will not be posted mainly because they are not located in close enough proximity for to me to scan. At some stage in the medium term I will re-unite all my collection and scan some more.

Regards,

Rob

[Tim B]

Hello all,

As I was jumping around the various forums tonight, I wanted to point out that this thread only had seven inputs on one page back in April 2007 prior to being resurrected in 2009. In this last year (roughly), and about three years after it initially started, we are at 25 pages, with over 14,250 views and 495 replies!!

Though I might be somewhat biased here, I think this is probably the most detailed and complete online reference that discusses the various WW1 Interallied Victory Medals to date, and am happy to be a part in sharing information and photographs of such beautiful pieces of history. It's been a great thread for me and I have learned a lot from other members here.

Congrats to everyone participating.

Tim

[RobW]

I would concur and agree with Tims post. It is good to see that there are fellow and like-minded collectors in the internet enabled space that are willing to share their information and musings to the benefit of all.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

Hmmmmmm....

There does not seem to be much movement around here at the moment.

I will shortly be posting a standard Czech-Russian Legion trio to keep the information out there.

After that I will be off-line for a while so hopefully in the meantime others can continue to post their items. As much as I enjoy looking at my own collection it would be good to see others.

Regards,

Rob

Edited September 26, 2010 by RobW

[QSAMIKE]

Good Evening Gentlemen.......

I have just found this thread and have read it from beginning to end with great interest and a number of tears........

I must say that I am not a collector of the Victory medals, they are too new for me, LOL, I collect items to the Boer War......

But I will tell you a little story......

Many years ago over 45 when I first started collecting medals my parents and I were at an estate auction..... One of the lots was a very large frame containing ALL of the Victory medals or at least one from each country, some examples there were two showing both sides...... Down each side of the frame there was an American Navy Medal and an Army medal with all the bars..... I remember there were 2 Brazil and 1 Cuba..... My father asked me if I wanted it as a graduation present from high school and I said yes it would be neat to have..... The bidding started at $200.00 and there were no bids, then it dropped to $150.00, then $100.00 and my father said $50.00 again no bids so he obtained the frame for the $50.00..... I did not have many reference books on them at the time and I really did not know what I had..... A couple of years later when I was off on my own I was looking at the medals I had collected up on my wall and said to myself, you have a lot of items but no real theme to my collection so since I had 3 Boer War QSA medals to members of my family and a number of other QSA's and I liked the Victorian era I decided that is what I am going to collect and have been doing so ever since..... I took the Victory medals to a local coin dealer and asked how much he would give me for them and he offered $500.00 and thinking that was a great deal I sold them to him after all they only cost $50.00..... It was not until a number of years later I realized my mistake..... Now for every $1000.00 I spend on medals I buy about $250.00 worth of reference books and have a large library.....

Moral to the story do your research, buy the books, knowledge from books can add an immense value............

Remember this was long before the internet and fantastic forums like this one......

Mike

P.S. I will not say what the cost of Victorian medals were then except to say I still have the first QSA/KSA pair that I ever bought, a 7 bar QSA, 2 bar KSA was $35.00.......

P.S.S. I wish I had a digital camera then also.......

P.S.S.S. I just remembered a couple had the original design of the "Allies Colour Ribbon", I have attached a photo of the ribbon.

[lambert]

Hello everyone.

I am happy to join the group.

My name is William Lambert, I am Brazilian and I am 35 years collect Users only 6 months.

I hope to learn a lot from you.

Lambert

[lambert]

I collect mainly

World War I (all participants), and Medals from Brazil in WW2 (FEB)

Lambert

[JimZ]

This thread totally fascinates me. I started it off with an observation as to some different victory medals, only to learn that these were really the tip of a massive iceberg!!!

I guess the variations and images that have been amassed within the thread are already a rather comprehensive reference point to any interested party.

Well done to all those who have contributed and I look forward to learning more about the various Victory medals!

Jim :cheers:

[johnnymac]

This thread totally fascinates me. I started it off with an observation as to some different victory medals, only to learn that these were really the tip of a massive iceberg!!!

I guess the variations and images that have been amassed within the thread are already a rather comprehensive reference point to any interested party.

Well done to all those who have contributed and I look forward to learning more about the various Victory medals!

Jim

Thanks for reading all the Vic posting, From one Jim to another Jim

[Tim B]

Yes, it's a great thread and probably one of the best sources online to really get some worthwhile information on these medals.

There is almost too much information and too many different directions presented here for just one thread. I know Rob and I have kicked around the idea to ask Nick to start a separate sub-forum on Victory Medals in general, as it has such an international flavor, but so far the demand is not that sufficient I guess. Lot's of readers, but only a handful actually posting on any routine basis.

I wish more members would routinely participate and maybe we could persuade those powers to be to make it happen. I personally could see several areas of interest here:

- The various country medals and varieties themselves; both official and unnofficial versions and we could dedicate threads specifically to one type/country medal so the discussion stayed on particular focus.

- The myriad of clasps and other ribbon attachments; official and otherwise.

- The differences of ribbons between countries.

- All the boxes, cartons, cards, MID's, etc.

- The States/Cities/Local Townships versions. Hell, there are even veteran, VFW, and other organizations that produced these.

- ??? I'm sure I'm missing other areas that would be of interest as well. Anyway, it would have my vote! The special interest forum would probably be the most appropriate area IMO.

Tim

Edited December 29, 2010 by Tim B

[RobW]

Yes, it's a great thread and probably one of the best sources online to really get some worthwhile information on these medals.

There is almost too much information and too many different directions presented here for just one thread. I know Rob and I have kicked around the idea to ask Nick to start a separate sub-forum on Victory Medals in general, as it has such an international flavor, but so far the demand is not that sufficient I guess. Lot's of readers, but only a handful actually posting on any routine basis.

I wish more members would routinely participate and maybe we could persuade those powers to be to make it happen. I personally could see several areas of interest here:

Tim

Hey Tim,

I would agree and concur with your points. I too believe such a vic sub-forum would be appropriate but as you have said, with the limited number of actual regular posters it would not have sufficient demand.

I am hopeful that 2011 will bring more regular posters amongst the many watchers.

Regards,

Rob