Baden NCO in China

[Stogieman]

Anybody have any lists/data on awards of the Baden Silver Merit Medal of the MKF Band during China campaigns?

Thanks, Rick

[Stogieman]

Alternately, anyone with any idea as to what Baden Natives served?

[HeikoGrusdat]

sorry Stogie but I have never seen a document for a baden medal for china and I have never seen a medal bar with a baden medal on it that was definately given for china service....

[Stogieman]

Well, I have one, image to follow this evening...

[Bernd D]

Anybody have any lists/data on awards of the Baden Silver Merit Medal of the MKF Band during China campaigns?

Thanks, Rick

Rick,

I do have a list. Do you need some informations?

Bernd

[Stogieman]

Hallo Bernd, Vielen Dank! I have an NCO bar as follows:

1914 EK2

Militar-Ehrenzeichen, 2. Klasse

Baden Silver Merit Medal (Type 1) (F?r Verdeinst) on Militar Karl Friedrich Ribbon

China Service Medal, Combattant

Prussian Long Service Cross, 15 Years, NCO/Enlisted

Danke!

[Stogieman]

The Bar in question. Reverse of the Baden Merit Medal is "F?r Verdienst"

[Bernd D]

The Bar in question. Reverse of the Baden Merit Medal is "F?r Verdienst"

I saw this bar as well, and I struggeled with myself because I don?t like this king of making.

Nevertheless, 11 soldiers were awarded with both medals (MEZ2 - 1901 and Baden Merit Medal 1902) for their service in China. From these 11 possibly seven could be the former wearer of the medalbar. They are:

Gefr Ammann, 6. OA Infanterie-Regiment

Uffz Hauck, OA Reiter-Regiment

Gefr Hermann H?pfinger, Kommando des OA Expeditionskorps

Sergeant Heinrich Julius Hermann Lindemann, 4. OA Infanterie-Regiment

Pionier Wilhelm M?ssig, OA Pionier-Bataillon

Kanonier Karl Schumann,OA Bataillon schwerer Feldhaubitzen

Fw Paul Skowranek, 4. OA Infanterie-Regiment

Regards

Bernd

[Stogieman]

Hallo Bernd, Vielen Dank! Yes, the construction is the typical crude (period) NCO Bar. Certainly not of the quality of an Officer's Bar. But the combination of MEZ2/Baden Merit Medal for China was just too rare to bypass. I knew less than a dozen possible, but did not think only 7!! Many thanks! Rick

[Guest Rick Research]

Better scans. I would say this is undoubtedly a "Papa Friedrich" for China because he would have been too senior in rank in WW1 to have one then-- after XV Years service, almost certainly a Feldwebelleutnant.

[Guest Rick Research]

Ugly but typical mounting. This one has zink hooks and the catch too rather than the usual brass ones soldered on.

[Stogieman]

Well, I don't think you'll find much that could be scarcer. Or more beautiful. The Type 1 medal is very hard to find and this one is just one huge hunk of real silver. Weighs a ton!

[saschaw]

The Type 1 medal is very hard to find and this one is just one huge hunk of real silver. Weighs a ton!

What the f*ck, please, is "Type I" ???

[Guest Rick Research]

He means Papa Fred, Friedrich I, rather than the often seen world war Friedrich II.

But you're right, this "Old Fred I." was actually, what-- the 4th Type of Friedrich I-- M1855, M1857, M1869, M1882 (this one). I would hate to have to figure out WHICH model was awarded with so many transition years on the rolls for those, assuming they must still exist.

[Stogieman]

Part of what is so amazing about this one is that aside from the rather extreme rarity, the medal itself is just drop-dead beautiful. Heavy, well-struck and high relief. I have not seen a scan/image yet that does it justice. You just have to hold it in your hand...

[HeikoGrusdat]

I have two of these papa Friedrich medals for DSWA on big bars..... great medal you are right, very heavy and big!!! A bit off topic but if you want to see these bars please let me know...

Heiko

[HeikoGrusdat]

Bernd.... do you have a list for Badener that got the DSWA-medal and papa Friedrich as well.... ?

[CRBeery]

Like I said before, I like this one better than St.Henry! It is an impressive medal. This is the early version with the engravers mark.

[Stogieman]

Very nice bar Chet!

[saschaw]

Ah thanks, now I see what he meant. I love the 1869-181 and 1881-1908 type as well, these are the most impressive ones, and not even that rare or expensive. Well, not too common of course, for 1870/71 or China/Kolonien service on Karl Friedrich ribbon ...

[scottplen]

I just traded for this bar ! Does anyone know total of MEZ award for China and How many Baden merit medals awarded for China ? I am excited to be the owner of this bar !!!
 

[scottplen]

 orI have been thinking about  and researching this bar !

I was thinking it has no Baden LS award 1902 baden medal so IMO the bar is for a Prussian ? So is there a break up

of the Units by German State ?

Edited March 2, 2017 by scottplen
error

[scottplen]

Ok using the internet I found list of Bars awarded for China medal by unit also

break up of German forces by state / unit in China So I used reverse thinking on bars instead of units with bars I went through and combined 2 lists without bars and states !

So in my calculating if he was not awarded any bars it would be one of three NCOs

of course it my theory and I may be wrong but IMO its one of the following

FW Paul Skowranek 4 OEIR

Sgt Heinrich Lindeman 4 OEIR   Both these units made up Baden and Prussian troops

3rd   Co Prussian 4th co  Baden  received no bars

 

or Gefr Ammon 6 OEIR

made up of Prussians, Bavarians and Wuert. troops

1st and 2nd Companies made up of Prussians and Bavarians Received 2 bars

But 3 4 and 9th Companies were Prussians and received no bars !!!

So IMO its one of these 3 ? is there a list of men by CO ?

 

[dedehansen]

Sorry to say, your theory is wrong, the Gefechtsspangen were not awarded.

You had to buy and to pay for them oneself, so if you would not buy one 

you could wear your medal bar without Gefechtsspangen, despite you were

allowed to do so.

Regards
Andreas

[scottplen]

Ok then back to 7